AIBU to refuse to pay NDN £1000?

[SavBlancTonight]

We live in an area with clay soil with a well known subsidence issue, exacerbated currently by weird weather of the last few years. Our house is one of many in area currently being investigated for subsidence issues, via insurance company. We have bushes/trees on our boundaries at the front and certainly, the roots are clearly causing some problems although exactly how much or what they will do to sort is still unclear.

Ndn is also having some minor signs of subsidence and has started similar investigation via his insurance company. They have come round today and confirmed that on his side, yes, the trees/bushes' roots are causing some issues with pipes etc underground. This is first step in process and a report will be prepared.

NDN has suggested that as the reason he has problems is our bushes, we are personally liable for his insurance excess of £1000.

I say, 1) it's entirely not clear that our bushes are responsible at this v early stage in investigations, and its very unlikely they are solely responsible 2) even if they are, this is not something we have personal liability for. The bushes have been there for years- long before we moved in. But even if he has a case, it's for our insurance and his to fight it out. If it is decided that somehow we are liable, our insurance may agree to pay out. But we are not personally required to pay his excess?

I mean, isn't that what insurance is for?

As far as I am aware all insurance companies have a subsidence excess of £1000. I have never seen any cheaper.

Leave it for the insurance companies to fight it out.
Just make sure your insurance company doesn’t take NDNs insurance company information as true. Your insurance company must investigate, on site with experienced and qualified building surveyors.

You are not required to pay his excess, under any circumstances. How much excess he chooses to have is his problem.

This is what I said to dh.

I feel bad as I was a bit snappy. I came in, in a huge rush as me and dd had to go out again in 5 minutes, and dh accosted me with a face of doom and the hushed voice of concern that we would now have to pay this £1000.

But while I could have been more polite, I am pleased to see that I was overall right. Its ot our problem. Ndn must instruct his insurance company and we will instruct ours.

I am going to tell dh not to speak to ndn about it again and just to say that if his insurance company wants to talk to our insurance company we are happy to.provide details.

Crazy to suggest you're liable for his excess. Even if (and it's a huge if) his insurance company decided it was caused by your property and your insurance company agreed and agreed to pay his insurance company, that's entirely between them, and he'd still need to pay his own insurance excess, absolutely nothing to do with you. That's how insurance works. Don't give him a penny whatever you do!

@RudsyFarmer if it’s a new extension they should have taken into account your tree when they put up the extension assuming your tree was their first.
If your tree was already there and they put up a new extension in spite of your tree and obviously too close then it’s down to the neighbours and their structural engineer.

They should have constructed a barrier underground to prevent the roots of your pre existing tree damaging the property.
Obviously if it’s an old extension and a new tree, just ignore me🤣

His excess is his responsibility, and, as you've said, the bushes aren't the only problem.

I'd strongly advise mentioning to your insurer that he is asking you to pay his excess, they will give you solid advice and reassurance, and, if he were to pursue it, in my experience they would have your back legally, e.g. respond to any formal requests via their legal department.

Tell him politely but firmly, you've spoken to your insurers and they've advised you have to leave everything with them. If you want to, as you have to live next to him and don't want to get nasty, you could say it could invalidate your insurance were you to do so, so you're under strict instructions to leave it to them. If he's in doubt he can speak to his insurers.

He's a CF.

There are circumstances in which you could be liable, but you would be very silly just to take the NDN's word for it. This is exactly what you pay insurance premiums for.

Mostly you need to make sure your dh doesn't just give him £1000 and tell you afterwards!

This!

If the insurers judge it's your fault, your company will have to pay his whole claim, including the excess.

I don't know if the bushes are the cause, obviously, but if they are, the fact that you didn't plant them won't mean you aren't liable, if they're on your land.

But yes, leave it all in the hands of the insurers.

He's being a cheeky bastard. Plans to guilt you into paying by gaslighting etc.

I agree, watch him going forwards and keep any comms to written forms if possible

We also live in an area with clay soil.
We received a letter from our NDN insurance company telling us that the likely cause of their subsidence was our trees. We very much doubted this but paid to have them cut down. Many months later it was discovered that the cause was likely to have been trees on council land. NDN didn’t ask us to pay his excess and we wouldn’t have done if he did. We didn’t ask them to cover the cost of us cutting down the trees. That’s one of the responsibilities you take on as a home owner.

This.

If your insurers accept responsibility then ndn will claim off your insurance not his so won’t have to pay an excess.

NDN is wrong, but I can also see his POV. I'd be annoyed if I was expected to pay if there was no fault on my part.
Stay strong, let the companies sort it out.
I had subsidence at my last property, & had to pay the £1000 excess; as others have said, this is standard.

If you were liable, his insurers would be contacting your insurers. His excess is his problem.

I work in liability claims for a well known insurer....... Do not under any circumstances pay anything to your NDN. If down the line you are found legally liable for the cause of his subsidence then your insurance company will correspond with his insurer about who pays what. If he has had to pay his XS during that time then he may be able to claim it back from your insurance company, depending upon the liability outcome. It's how insurance works.

I had a car accident once which was the other driver's fault. I paid the excess to my insurance company and then was reimbursed the excess by the other person's insurance company. The other driver did not have to pay for my excess out of his own pocket.

Do not pay your neighbour any money. Leave it for the insurance companies to sort out. It may well be the case that his excess is reimbursed, but it will be via the insurance company and not you. This is why we have insurance, for them to sort it.

You're a long way off from a claim being settled.

I had subsidence problems at a house years ago. Similar to you it was due to maturing shrubs in clay soil combined with low rain fall. First they established the cause of the problem, removed the shrubs, then they monitored for a year to see if there was any further movement in the house, then came to repair work followed by a further year of monitoring to make sure I didn't end up with heave after the soil rehydrated.

Your insurance companies will sort it out between them. I would not get involved in any discussion about it and you need to make sure your husband sticks to the same script.

Insurance lawyer here. NDN is talking bullshit. The insurance is "first party" ie between him and his insurer, including excess. He and insurer pay in first instance. IF there is a reasonable case that you are liable the insurer can seek a recovery from you (third party claim). Also known as subrogation. But they won't have a case simply because your bushes are the cause of damage. To be liable they also have to show you were "on notice" of the risk BEFORE the damage occurred AND failed to abate the nuisance in a reasonable time. It doesn't sound like that can be proven so he can go whistle. N.B. if the bushes are the cause suggest you reduce or remove them promptly to avoid allegations of post-notice further damage.

Our tree was there first👍

Your husband is a dope. Don’t let him anywhere near this. 🙄

Also your house insurer is unlikely to be involved even at subrogation stage unless you also have liability cover. Most building policies cover damage to your own property only, not liability for damage to other people's property.

Home insurance manager here.

You are not personally liable for the £1000. Subsidence excesses are nearly always £1000 + due to the time & costs involved in these claims (often 10's of £1000s and 12-18 months).

Given both your homes are built on clay and the warm weather we've had the last few summers it's much more likely this is the cause than your trees/bushes (500% increase in subsidence claims 2022/23).
Even if you are to 'blame', you still won't pay this. Ndn insurance company (IC) will pursue your IC for what is known as a 'recovery', where they'll chase the cost of the claim from your IC. If successful, ndn IC will then decide if they want to give their customer the £1000 back. They often do for good will purposes, however don't have to as it's within each insurance contract that the owner must pay an excess.

It's unlikely the 'blame' will be placed on you unless there's proven negligence, i.e. they have an audit trail of letters to you informing you that your trees/bushes may cause damage to their home (and proof you did nothing about it). Either way, you wont be flipping the bill. But you will have to pay your own £1000 (or more) excess of your own claim goes forward. Do not engage in any liability conversations with your NDN, if they bring this up, inform them they will need their IC to speak to your IC.

I hope this helps