Teachers strike... what will actually happen in end?!

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My school is striking again next week with others that have teachers from the particular union.

All that is happening is parents are getting massively angry. Kids are missing out. I've used so much holiday on strike days as I have multiple children. I know my anger should not be directed to school but exactly where can I direct it to? I'm pretty sure my MP wouldn't care. He's completely useless.

The government don't seem to care.

I personally think something needs to change in that profession and funding in my area is shocking! It's probably not attracting the best people to the profession and certainly is driving people away.

However, am I right in thinking rishi and co don't care?! Teachers could do 5, 10, 100 days and it seems they won't budge right?

Parents don't seem to care or get angry enough, short of tweeting about it or writing to MP. It isn't really enough to get this resolved.

How do you think this situation will end?

Then they'd go to an Independent School.

I'm sure it was posted some while ago where I mentioned improving behaviour and attendance by treating parents, many of whom will have had a less than sparkling experience of education themselves, with a bit of respect and not treating kids like lumps of meat going through a processing factory would be the plan. Happy kids and happy parents equal less disruption and you can do the job you all keep telling me you're so good at in peace. If kids want to learn and can see the relevance along with accessing an appropriate curriculum then that's half the battle won.

Are you a teacher then? Because I'm wondering what qualifies you to think you know what 'equals less disruption' and what actually goes on in schools. Teachers generally bend over backwards to make the curriculum as accessible and interesting as possible and to treat students with respect and encourage them to treat each other and staff with respect. Unfortunately it quite often doesn't work. You say 'if kids want to learn'? Yes, well the problem is that quite a lot of them simply don't, however relevant or accessible the subject matter. As for treating parents with respect... we do. They sometimes don't return the favour though.

Bloody hell... reading back, it seems you were a teacher. Well, there's no accounting for your opinions then.

What is then, @lifeissweet? Genuine question, what is the solution?

Where to start?!

This is the ideal:

To begin with, I want an Education Secretary who values education (outlandish, I know) and one who is advised by a board of education experts from a range of backgrounds.

I want an overhaul of inspections. They need to be far less prescriptive. I want them to go into schools and judge what they actually see and not pre-judge based on data. I want less focus on data all round - it can be manipulated and children aren't products where you put in x and get out y.

I want them to come up with plans for improvement rather than a list of faults with no suggestions. I think Ofsted reports are horribly unhelpful about what improvement looks like.

The whole thing needs to be less punitive and more focused on improvement. Bin the grading. Inspect every school on the same timetable (outstanding schools are left alone for far too long). Parents can read the reports and choose a school based on the strengths noted. Want great pastoral support? Choose one with that as a strength. It would stop parents going for one with an 'outstanding' badge just because of that. It causes inequality.

I want more involvement from local authority - or other - improvement partners, so schools are given tools to help and regular peer inspections to share good practise across schools. Some do this and do it brilliantly. Some (mostly MATS) are very insular and don't take advice very readily.

I want an overhaul of SEN provision and some actual research about the impact of so many more SEN children in mainstream schools. If they want to close special schools or limit access, then teachers need more training, schools need to be resourced to manage it and a more holistic approach needs to take place (I'm thinking more mini-resource bases where resources and expertise are pooled. This is far less wasteful and more efficient and reduces the pressure on mainstream teachers)

I want investment in buildings (that one is obvious and shouldn't be an outlandish suggestion)

There needs to be more admin support so that teachers are able to concentrate on planning and resourcing great lessons and not getting bogged down in data input which isn't using their skills. It's a waste of money for teachers to be photocopying and data inputting in their PPA time.

I want well trained and well paid TAs to run teacher lead and planned interventions. Not putting up displays or babysitting, but supporting learning. This is supposed to happen, it increasingly doesn't - and now they are all being laid off anyway.

I feel like much of this was in place when I started teaching. I've just read it back and, Ofsted aside, we did a lot more collaborative work across schools and had more input from LA advisors than now. It did make a difference - and it doesn't cost the Earth.

Unfortunately, cuts to LAs and academisation has ruined all of those brilliant networks. Schools are more like stand-alone businesses now.

As for recruitment, I think the idea of having all teachers having M.Eds is not such a bad idea of a previous Ed Sec (can't even remember which, now. We've had so many).

Teaching is more attractive if it is better respected. What garners respect is higher qualification and skill, plus good pay. If you judge a profession to be well qualified and well respected it becomes attractive. Not necessarily for the pay in itself, but because of the message it sends about what society thinks of a profession. Well paid = well valued.

This costs money. You'd need training providers, bursaries for training to that level and then a tempting starting salary.

So:

• stress reduced by a different inspection regime

-stress reduced by a DfE who understands and values education and doesn't move the goalposts all the time with unevidenced initiatives.

• stress reduced by proper SEN support
• stress reduced by proper TA support
• stress reduced by admin support
• better trained teachers who are incentivised to stay

...

All with benefit to the children.

Idealistic. I know.

I've held QTS for 22 years now, taught full time secondary for 15 of those, in Adult Education for 3 years, several years working for an anti-poverty charity and a little bit longer in a youth work capacity. Now I work in local government formulating policy and strategy,.some educational. Plus I have two secondary age children. I have a pretty clear picture of what goes on in a classroom and I've always specialised in challenging kids.

I know the masses are always know for their smart moves. But @TheSnootiestFox can't you see a rather lot of people are saying actually your coming across badly.

I still haven't heard from you what your suggestion is re tackling the recruitment issue in this sector as a whole ? Although granted I'm willing to say I may have missed it treating parents with respect or only teaching those what want to listen isn't going to suddenly draw people to the career ?

Because people are voting with their feet and again this is happening on mass but something is going wrong.

I want to see the other perspective on this, but I don't have time with insults, diversions or the whole they hit me first so type games. I have kids and I get enough of that as it is.

Frankly

You have laudable experience in education, so what do you think schools should do about the recruitment and retainment issue if you don't think teachers deserve a pay rise? Because the two issues ARE inextricably linked.

Do you know, the starting salary comment there is the only thing I'd disagree with! I too can remember the school improvement service and every subject having a contact they could go to for advice. I've always been against tuition fees for any public servant and I actually got a bursary to train, I was in the first year to do so I think. Also agree with the M.Ed. and inspections being reformed! But then if everyone had an M.Ed, then I think the starting salary should be adjusted to reflect that actually!

This.

I am a lawyer and often represent teachers in various situations e.g. tribunals, dismissal hearings etc. I attended a private school myself and had no idea what impossible conditions state school teachers were up against until I moved into this specialism.

I agree with you 100%.

An anti poverty charity worker who is a Tory? Jesus wept.

I let noble giraffe draw that conclusion because they were hell bent on telling me I knew nothing about teaching

I said your teaching experience was hideously out of date and then you started talking about teaching methods.

I tried to point out that I was talking about the situation in schools (SEN, children’s mental health, shortage of teachers etc etc) and you started talking about how crap some teachers you know are.

Have you addressed how pay has been degraded since you were a teacher nearly a decade ago and the graph showing this is worse than comparable professions? Have you acknowledged that there is a crisis in teacher recruitment which means that the government is basically saying let anyone on a teacher training course, and headteachers saying they have to appoint poor quality candidates or nobody?

I don’t believe so.

And you might have your opinions, but all opinions are not equal, and just because it’s your opinion doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be challenged with facts.

Thing is, TheSnootiestFox, it was about 2014 when all of the improvement stuff came to a stop. Since you left, things have got exponentially worse in almost every area.

And unless all of those other things on the list are implemented or brought back somehow (which takes time and money and expertise and effort) then the pay is the only thing that can make any sort of a difference.

Offsetting the crap conditions with good pay is the only way it becomes remotely attractive as things stand. There is nothing else that can make a difference to recruitment and retention as quickly. I don't think it stands alone as a long-term solution, but if a healthy pay rise stops half of the teachers currently looking for other jobs from leaving, then it's money worth spending.

I know you'll never agree with me on that last part.

But also - a lot of the things on my list are things brought up to the Ed Sec by the Unions on the one occasion she deigned to meet with them - and aside from some suggestion of a 'workload working party' (which sounds like a talking shop for ideas to be kicked around and dismissed to me) all suggestions were denied.

Strikes were about forcing that conversation too.

I support their right to strike.

But also am upset about my child not being in school. Schools make such a bloody fuss about attendance after all. Or actually maybe attendance isn't actually so important after all? Or is only important when it is the parent trying to take their child out of school?

I am lucky and can WFH but equally it is disruptive for both parents and children. And a lot of other parents don't have that luxury.

The most annoying thing about my child's school is that not all year groups are impacted, as depends which unions the various teachers belong to. But school have made no effort to re-jig things, so some year groups have been off for every strike day, while others haven't been off at all.

We recently had "dress like a teacher" day and there was a lot of talk between parents of not sending their child in at all or sending them in with a "I'm striking" sign, so I think patience is possibly wearing thin.

I really hope a resolution is reached, as it isn't a good situation for anyone.

I give up! Well, not literally, I love my job, the team I work with and the kids. I give up trying to fight for education. I have so much respect for noblegiraffe she is very knowledgeable. I just can’t lose pay and pension contributions fighting a flight that I think is lost.

The govt have invested millions in Oak Academy (rather than putting this into school budgets) and centralising ‘teach by numbers’ style many academies have. They obviously want to move towards unqualified learning supervisors overseeing lessons taught online/or by AI. It will be a cheap way to ‘teach’ the masses. Lots of parents won’t realise that their schools have very few qualified teachers and as long as school is open, they’re child isn’t coming home moaning about detentions and they can wear shorts on a hot day, all will be well. I’m just going to do what I have to do, do what’s best for the kids (not the extra bullshit) have a bit of fun with those kids and see if I can make it until retirement!

Thank you for being supportive. I absolutely know it's disruptive. I appreciate you bearing with it.

For clarification, the attendance thing comes from elsewhere. Schools and teachers don't like it either, but attendance is an Ofsted and DfE priority, so schools are hammered about their attendance figures. Head teachers used to be able to grant authorised absences at their discretion, but this is no longer permitted.

So really, that is another symptom of what we are unhappy about - overreach of the DfE and Ofsted and priorities all over the place.

And it has been the same situation in my DDs school too with the same teachers striking and the same classes closing, but that is strike rules. No teacher can cover a striking teacher's work. They aren't allowed to 'rejig'

It looks very possible that all unions will unite after the next ballot, though, so the inequality might end and schools will have to close altogether.

I'm not sure that's any better for you, though!

For clarification, the attendance thing comes from elsewhere. Schools and teachers don't like it either, but attendance is an Ofsted and DfE priority, so schools are hammered about their attendance figures. Head teachers used to be able to grant authorised absences at their discretion, but this is no longer permitted.

This ^. School registers are legal documents that are logged daily and monitored by the LEA, who are also the ones who insist on dishing out fines to parents. So schools come down hard on attendance because they are constantly held to account about it. In my area, a few of the secondaries are even advertising for Attendance Officers to try to improve theirs.

I agree this is the scary future we are looking at and I can only hope that Labour gets into power and stops the march towards it. I'm glad my DD is almost through her secondary education – if I had primary age, or pre-primary age, DC I'd be really worried.

I think the high level of teaching vacancies speaks for itself, tbh. The job is either too stressful and difficult or not paid enough.

I was shocked to see that teachers start on around £28k (outside London). I work in the 3rd sector, for an organisation that pays less than the going rate for comparable jobs, and our homelessness prevention workers start on more than that. And they don't need any qualifications and almost never have to do more than the 37 hours pw they're paid for, either.

If children are going to get a half-decent education, we need decent teachers and imo the salary isn't good enough to get them, or keep them.

I'm 56, pretty politically lazy and have not been militant about anything in my life. Not always been a teacher, have worked in the city & HR.
But I've now voted to strike (not in NEU). I am so angry at the government's refusal to even engage in talks. To try and understand the issues in both education and healthcare. They just don't care. It's not all about pay, but I'm not sure where all these classroom teachers are earning over £45,000. Not on normal pay scales they're not.
So, come Sept, I'll be on strike too. With the majority of my colleagues.

Well done Barclay, you've managed to piss even me off. And before anyone says 'but if you cared about the children', it's because I do that I'll strike.

But the money isn't there, life. That's the problem. And even I can see that if there is any spare cash it needs to go to stop people dying from cancer instead of paying what is fundamentally a group of well people more. I think that's what's sticking in the craw a bit.

You would have a point if the government wasn't lining the pockets of their friends.

Your point is? I am politically aligned with the Conservatives because I believe in family, marriage, education, working hard to support said family and providing for yourself as far as possible, rather than sitting back and expecting state hand outs for everything. Too many people have just done what they want, taken no responsibility for their actions and expected the state to pick up the mess and that why we're in the mess we're in. Just because I'm a Tory doesn't mean that I want to see people starve and it saddens me beyond belief to see people that are busting a gut to do their best struggling. That's why I did what I did for a few years. Doesn't need a rude comment 🙄 and apparently I'm the one that doesn't come across well 🤣

Well, you had me until the last paragraph but now I actually can't be bothered with you either so I shall bid you a good evening and decline to go over my views yet again.