What do typical bedtimes look like?

[GaudiMuse]

Bed time with my soon to be ten year old takes hours. She wants hugs, her hand held, a long routine of relaxation apps, massaged… We have to go back to the start of the relaxation app, if she misses a bit. The lighting must be dim. There is frequently anxiety and crying.

It literally can take two hours every night. And that’s not including supper or a bath.

I’m a single mother and her brother is on the spectrum. I do wonder if DD is on the spectrum but perhaps this is what typical bed times look like?

Difficult too! Different needs but my ten year old and 8 year old fight bedtime like crazy. Just one more game/drink/food/story/song/quickly need to do xxxx and xxxx. I have to do so much begging and cajoling to get them to do the necessary steps - wee, teeth , pyjamas (wouldn’t even dream of trying to do a nightly shower), you’d think they had never done it all before . The ten year old has just recently stopped sleeping with me and the 8 year old is still in my bed. So, different issues but same pain. I have friends whose kids just GO TO BED: their lives must be so different: as a single parent I can’t be bothered to go downstairs after all that. I just go to bed and read on my phone.

If I am firm and say no, then there are masses of uncontrollable tears. It feels like she needs all this. She is diagnosed with ADHD.

All kids like routine and I think, even in the absence of any ASD, we as parents can get somewhat dependent on what "works" and so we reinforce their need to have x,y,z. I definitely found myself in that scenario a bit at times where child would, in the absence of the exact right thing kick off. When I became a single parent I had to work v hard with my two to get them to accept some flexibility and deliberately made small changes to the order or the cup or teddy or the book every few days so they didn't fixate on having to have that one thing so they could cope if we were in a situation where it wasn't possible.
No-one here can diagnose your daughter, but I just wanted to say it may not be ASD related, just small child related.

It is bloody exhausting after working all day, managing appointments and letters to LEAs and the usual part time job of being an autism mum.

By nine pm, I just want to cut a few corners & eat/get a glass of wine and five minutes of peace.

parents can get somewhat dependent on what "works" and so we reinforce their need to have x,y,z

NT kids here but definitely believe in the above. I definitely created certain habits in the early years with both mine that were then ingrained and much much harder to break free of later on.

Can you try bibble approach and introduce gradual tiny changes?

There is moving from bed to bed too and children wanting to sleep with me. Some nights I am beyond caring and would agree if they wanted to sleep on the roof.

Some nights I am beyond caring and would agree if they wanted to sleep on the roof.

This is probably at the core of it, she knows you ultimately will give in under duress.

@TaxDirector what is the bibble approach?

And sometimes it is right to give in to that OP. My DD is a tween now but last year had a really tough 6 months which involved her often sleeping in with me. I've got a big bed all to myself to it wasn't a problem really (though I 100% get the need for alone time with wine and crisps). Once the circumstances settled down she just drifted back to her own room. Nothing lasts forever, though it may feel like that.

Aha just realised!! Small changes to the order every night. I try with her because the other child is so order fixated. But when I try, the bedtime seems to go very wrong and there is a lot of crying. It takes HOURS as it is. Not unusual for me to realise two hours have gone by before she gets to sleep.. even with (prescribed) melatonin.

I think the "bibble approach" (love that, I'm an approach 😁) refers to my idea earlier about very small changes to routine to break habits becoming too ingrained.

It sounded very professional @BibbleandSqwauk I must confess I went off to google it :-D - I was bewildered when I couldn’t find it online.

Sometimes I feel I’m going to scream. I guess everyone is like that though after a long day.. when bedtime is once again stretching into your much needed downtime.

8yo goes up at 7.45pm, toilet, brush teeth, wash, into PJs kiss goodnight at 8pm and lights out.

About a year ago we'd gotten into this long drawn out process of 30 minutes quiet play, get washed and into PJs, 30 minutes reading and cuddles, then she'd mess about needing a drink, needing the toilet etc for another hour. It had gotten silly and was just plain knackering. We sat her down and explained what the new routine would be, she didn't like the idea but we did it anyway, for about a week at lights out she'd whinge and try to prolong but we just stayed firm and refused to engage, back into her room, lights out (rinse and repeat) it was very super nanny.

Now it's wonderful.

10 and 6. Upstairs at 7 for showers, wee, teeth, pyjamas. Then 6 yo plays for 10 minutes whilst I settle 10 year old in with a hug and a book. Then back to 6 year old for a story and a cuddle, then her lights out. Half an hour, then it’s lights out for 10 year old.

Sometimes they do mess about, especially 6 year old, but that’s usually if they are overtired.

I hear that. It’s like you have an obstacle course to complete just to get some respite; and it keeps getting longer! That feeling is normal.

Hell. And I'm so glad to hear it's not just me.

None of us can take being tired. Ours are 6, 8 and 9. All get clingy and whiny. I feel like there's not enough of me or my husband to go around.

Plus I'm ratty and all touched out by then. Grumpy with them, then lay there when they've gone to sleep feeling guilty.

Pretty much a brilliant mum until 7 or half 7, so need to hang onto that!

Having three close together means it's hard to stick to the exact schedule that would suit each of them. Plus I had an awful childhood so try to make it a great one for them, which it can rarely be when I'm tired. Gah.

Anyway op, you aren't alone!

No that's not 'typical'. At that age it was 'right bedtime kids'. My daughter would be happy to go up, brush teeth etc and a quick cuddle then bed. Son might need a bit more coaxing but he'd go up readily enough and same - in bed. They didn't have phones at that age. Then next time I saw them was in the morning- son was an early riser he'd be up getting himself breakfast .
So there must be something going on - you need the stop this before you exhaust yourself but it may take professional help.

I have to say this sounds like our autistic son's bedtime and nothing like our NT one's.

The latter had a long bedtime too - we have to be fair - but it mainly consisted of being read to, and then doing his own reading.

Randomly mixing up the routine would cause a lot of upset with autistic DS. Over the years we have basically traded bits of his routine for a later bedtime. We also bought a second TV so he can wind down with his own choice of programmes after 8pm while we get on with our evening. Whatever keeps you sane!

If this is autism it presents differently from my son, but I am seeing some correlations. The lengthy bedtime ritual with the anxiety and insistence that if we skipped a bit of the relaxation app, we would go back to the start. I tried the strict & firm approach, which seems to work reportedly for lots of parents, and this just made things worse.

The crying and saying she cannot go to school, the closing the car door after a day of school and bursting into tears. The sore tummies… The reported nausea.. The teachers say she is fine.

Girls mask ASD much better than boys and it often starts to become obvious much later, at around the age your DD is. Your last post is suggestive that she's holding it together all day but then it all comes out the moment she's "safe" to do so. Again, none of us can or should give armchair diagnosis but given CAHMS waiting lists I'd start a referral process now and also start researching EBSA..emotionally based school avoidance. There are some excellent FB support groups .

Our twin1 year olds and almost 3 yr old go up at 6.30 baths bed 7.30 in there own beds and that's it for the night the rest of the evening is ours. Then our older ones up at 8 read till 8.30 then lights off and bed. Never encouraged sharing beds,swapping beds or messing about at bedtime so never had problems tbh. The more they realise the attention they get the more they will kick off

Thank you @BibbleandSqwauk - we are under CAMHs for ADHD and they said they would keep it in mind. I find myself unsure though at times (school teachers look at me as though I might be off my rocker) and am mentally building a picture.