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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that (part I)

53 replies

WinkyWinkola · 22/02/2008 22:08

it shouldn't take five murders (Steve Wright) to be sentenced to life i.e. never come out imprisonment.

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WinkyWinkola · 22/02/2008 22:59

Twospecialgirls, nothing wrong with a made up idea in your head! Unless it's criminally insane of course!

Based on the principle that nobody has the right to take another's life, we are stuck with people in prison. I'm sure they could be made useful anyway, sewing post bags for no pay or something.

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VeniVidiVickiQV · 22/02/2008 22:59

What are you basing your views on exactly?

nancy75 · 22/02/2008 23:01

if it was clear that if you kill somebody you will get the death sentance, we would not be murderers. If you know that is the punishment and still commit murder its your own fault

twospecialgirls · 22/02/2008 23:03

i knwo people who have been to prison and i have spoken to them about there experiences !

i just really dont understant the whole murderers have rights to idea i find it very odd i cant help the way i feel

VeniVidiVickiQV · 22/02/2008 23:03

And what do you percieve as clarity in the mind of someone like Steve Wright or Mark Dixie?

twospecialgirls · 22/02/2008 23:03

well ssaid nancy 75

WinkyWinkola · 22/02/2008 23:03

We've had the death penalty and still murders happened.

We had the death penalty for stealing. Stealing still happened.

Albert Pierrepoint, our most active executioner, believe that the death penalty served as no deterrent. But I'm not sure how valid his POV is but it's interesting nonetheless.

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nancy75 · 22/02/2008 23:05

neither one of these men has offered insanity as any kind of defense (im sure their lawyers suggested it)

twospecialgirls · 22/02/2008 23:06

you could maybe think if someone did something once then they may not know what they are doing but i think that if someone has gone out and murdered over and over agin that they are fully aware of what they are doing and i dont care if they claim they are clinically insane or anything like that they must at some point know what they are doing is wrong

HonoriaGlossop · 22/02/2008 23:07

I think that's a way of justifying it to yourself nancy. Taking life is taking life.

Twospecialgirls, I think you could turn this around in your head. It's not about murderers having 'rights', it's about OUR right as law abiding, thinking human beings, not to lower ourselves to the point of murder as well.

twospecialgirls · 22/02/2008 23:09

i do see your point when you put it that way HG but i really believe that they dont have the right to live im not saying kill for stealing i mean fro the most horriffic crimes

VeniVidiVickiQV · 22/02/2008 23:10

Everyone has the right to basic human rights. If an individual doesnt respect them, then that is no licence to lower our own standards as human beings. Where would that put society? Look at societies now who operate on an "eye for an eye" basis.

Where would you rather be - Gaza/Iraq/Afghanistan, or here?

There are many things that constitute basic human rights, and yet, if someone commits an act that is so heinous, then society is entitled to impose punitive action on them for the following reasons: to rehabilitate, to restrict, and/or protect society.

The people you have spoken to will have undoubtedly have had an element of bravado in their description of prison. It certainly isnt a bed of roses. Yes, they get their 3 meals a day - part of their basic human rights. Most prisons have 20 hour lock up - often in 6ft x 4ft cells. If you think this is comfortable then you are mistaken.

Prisoners do get benefits for good behaviour in prison, and, I think that this is a good thing both for their self esteem, to assist in the rehabilitation, or, for the prison to function well and prevent further bad behaviours.

It's not perfect in all prisons by any means, but the day we start putting a value on someones life and their ability to live it out, is the day that we devalue the lives of those lost in the hands of a murderer.

nancy75 · 22/02/2008 23:13

vvvq im not really interested in the self esteem of a man that brutally murdered 5 women. i doubt the parents of those women are either.

barnstaple · 22/02/2008 23:15

I think that a basic tenet of civilized society is that no one has the right to take another's life; that murdering the murderer is merely bringing yourself (and society) down to that level and invalidates the basic premise.

However, I do think that having committed a serious crime such as murder or paedophilia then all rights are suspended. I suggest that to counter prison overcrowding and the expense to society that those criminals should be lobotomised, castrated and sent to do really useful work in the sewers.

nancy75 · 22/02/2008 23:15

we have already de valued human life. the animals that kicked gary newlove to death in front of his kids got 17 years. they will be in their 30's when they get ot of prison. Those children will never get their father back, but the animals that killed him will go on to live normal lives.

twospecialgirls · 22/02/2008 23:16

im very glad then in taht case that its very miserable for them in prison i dont think they should get benefits for good behaviour
i really dont think they deserve to have their human rights respected and i dont think that makes me a bad person !!
i know a woman and her son and her son brutally murdered a girl it was horrible he did it in front of her child (toddler) and he is now in prison and i do see the mother and from the storys he tells he is living very comfy and get visits every week and works out in the gym every day is doing maths and english !!!! while this poor toddler lives without her mummy !!
i think there is something wrong dont you

Psychomum5 · 22/02/2008 23:16

personally, I think that a murder that is proven should mean LIFE....that is LIFE behind bars until you die!!

one murder!!!

sadly tho, some people murder, get life which bizarrely means 16yrs, is let out, and then commits more. If they had got life (as in real life) the first time, the second would never have happened....alto that doed kind of go against those who aren;t caught until they have commited many.

paedophiles whould also get life!

I have in the past thought that the death sentence is the only route, but then, why kill them, when prison can be far far worse (well, when you think of the threats they receive, the injuries they get, the way they can be treated). I mean......the thought of three meals, food, clothes and a PS3 isnlt a reason for me to want to go to prison is it.....oooh, no......the loss of freedom and the treatment and the humiliatin makes me fear prison so much that I would never attempt anything that could risk it!

prison and loss of liberty is enough of a deterent IMO, so for those who still want to do break the law, or even commit murder, the death penalty wouldn't be a deterrent....IMO!

twospecialgirls · 22/02/2008 23:17

well said nancy75

HonoriaGlossop · 22/02/2008 23:17

vvv I agree with you. Also, it's very important to remember that prison warders do an incredibly difficult job, and thank goodness for them; it's important for their safety, and for recruitment and retention of them, that life inside a prison is not such that the warders are living in an atmosphere of fear and brutality.

twospecialgirls who are you to say they don't have the right to live? If that is something that's possible for one human being to say to another, then murder wouldn't be so bad, would it? Steve Wright thought "that prostitute doesn't have a right to life because what she does is immoral". That was deeply wrong. So is saying he doesn't have the right to live. It's not our decision - otherwise the crime of murder wouldn't exist, would it?

WinkyWinkola · 22/02/2008 23:19

Life should mean life. I agree. If you kill.

But I will never agree with the death penalty. It's wrong. And there have been (and will be) too many mistakes.

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twospecialgirls · 22/02/2008 23:21

hg fairly good point but im stll of the same opinion !

HonoriaGlossop · 22/02/2008 23:22

Why?

VeniVidiVickiQV · 22/02/2008 23:23

I'm sure you dont care.

Thankfully there are those in society that do, and that like to lead by example, and not act in spite, or in fear, or in ignorance. Well, most of the time anyway.

Enjoy the rest of this thread. I think it'll be like a lovely rollercoaster ride...

twospecialgirls · 22/02/2008 23:26

lol im sure it will be as every body has a different opinion
i will keep reading and taking it in maybe reading lots of views will give me something to think about !! who knows
but alas for now im pooooped and have to go to bed as i have a 1am b/f wake up call

kayzisbroody · 23/02/2008 07:03

What about the human rights of those 5 woman he killed?
What about Holly and Jessica's human rights?
Do they not count?
I think the death sentance should be brought back.
Does Peter Sutcliffe and Rose West deserve human rights?
I dont bloody think so!!