To think you should lie?

[Dontcareifyouareonholiday]

I am a teacher, but I don’t work in attendance so I wonder if this shapes my view.

Whenever people ask if they should lie about a family holiday, most of the replies insist this is an awful thing to do, that you should tell the truth and it’s insulting to the teachers if you lie.

I honestly don’t care either way. But surely it is better for the school to have more authorised absences than unauthorised? If I was in a position to take term time holidays this is what I would do. I realise I may not understand something about attendance but it just seems to be better for the school and better for the family if a lie is told! I wouldn’t take the piss with it and have six weeks off every year but does anyone really care about a week at the end of July!?

I know lots of teachers, they really couldn’t care less eggs parents tell the school about holidays. They teach the kids that are in school and then they go home. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I tend to agree. I think it's one of those lies where everyone knows it's a lie but it's more polite than the truth.

Like if you're late for work and you blame the traffic rather than saying I couldn't get out of bed/I'm hungover/I hate coming here so I was slow getting ready etc. They know it wasn't the traffic and you know it wasn't the traffic but you all go along with the polite lie.

Same with taking your kids out three days before then end of term. Everyone knows you're on holiday, but it seems rude to just say that.

I suppose that’s what I think @MidnightInAustin - if a kid is marked as I (ill) on the register and comes back with a tan I honestly barely register it!

@NuffSaidSam yes - so sorry I’m running late overslept bad traffic!

I’m a teacher. I wouldn’t want parents to lie. I disagree that authorised absences are better for the school, an accurate reflection is more important. A true reflection of authorised vs unauthorised absences for example gives a better picture or how much parents and students value school, how engaged they are likely to be with home learning, how many students have health conditions (which may also indicate the prevalence of SEN for example). There is a difference between the support a student who has been off school for two weeks because they were sick in bed needs and deserves when they come back compared to one who has been relaxing in the sun on holiday.

I don’t care if parents have a week off at the end of the July, but they should at least be upfront about it. I think and even worry about the students in my class when they’re off unwell, I put effort into ensuring we catch up with things they’ve missed when they return. I don’t think it’s fair on my own well-being to lie about it and make me think a student in my class is sick when actually they’re on holiday and why should I be expected to put in extra effort to help the child to catch up on what they missed when parents have made the choice to take them out of school? Nobody chooses for a child to be too sick to go to school but a term-time holiday is a choice and in that case it’s up to the parents to support the child to catch up on missed work, not teachers who are usually already overworked.

I’ve never really tried to catch anyone up to be honest! I suppose if someone is off for two full weeks it is significant, and we do sometimes have that (kids go abroad visiting family) but fairly or otherwise I see a lot of kids and I don’t always remember who was off with a bad cold and who was suspiciously off three days before the holiday. It’s just not something I care about.

I have no issue with people taking holidays during term time but asking your child to lie about why they were off is wrong.

Do you tea g secondary? I can appreciate it’s probably different in secondary when you are teaching a number of different classes each day rather than only having one class of children as you would in primary or special schools. I only teach my one class, I have them all day every day (aside from PPA) and I would absolutely know and remember when a child had been off.

I don't lie. I teach my child not to lie, not that it's ok to lie when it suits.
I won't lie just because the rules are OTT.

Yes, I see that. Although would you really worry about a few days before a holiday? I’m not sure I would. Safeguarding wise I tend to be more alert to something not-quite-right when attendance is really erratic with lots of odd days off (even authorised) and lateness. I’d say that would be a concern over a full week off, even two, although I haven’t known anyone lie over that. It tends to be the ones that are a few days either side of a school holiday. I suspect lots of unwell kids on the 6th July

Oh I lie - I don’t mind being honest about that if that is not too much of a contradiction in terms.

I don't lie because I don't want to put my dc in a position of lying to their teacher, or for them to feel torn in loyalty between school and home.

For me the issue is that my child would have to lie too. I'd be happy to!

Maybe this is a primary / secondary thing but I wouldn’t be asking a child about their illness - especially if it is V & D which is generally what is recorded on the register.

I would still worry at the end of term. However, probably drip feeding here as I teach in a special school where a number of my students have complex health needs and some have life-limiting conditions, it’s not uncommon for kids to be off with a cold and then end up in hospital so I suppose I probably am biased about it and just think it’s kind of wrong to lie and say a healthy child is unwell. That said, when I taught mainstream primary I would still worry but this was before fines for holidays were introduced so I guess it didn’t occur to me parents might lie.

That’s understandable. Someone I know through a friend had a little girl who attended a similar sounding school and I know a number of children have sadly passed away so very natural you’d be very concerned by absence, particularly quite a lengthy absence.

I hybrid lie. So tell the school we're going on holiday for 4 days. Then phone in sick on the 5th for a full week off.

That way we stay under the LA fine threshold of 9 half day sessions.

The schools happy, teachers happy, we're happy.

why should I be expected to put in extra effort to help the child to catch up on what they missed when parents have made the choice to take them out of school?

Because you don't visit the sins of the parent on the child. It's not their choice when the family holiday is booked. As a teacher you should know this better than anyone.

I wouldn’t either to be honest. Not in a spiteful way - I’m genuinely not bothered - but generally they’ll catch up once they are in class. Lessons do get missed and disrupted through teacher absence, pupil absence, other factors, it’s just part and parcel of the school year and it genuinely isn’t the end of the world. It WAS annoying in days gone by to have parents demanding work set for their child who was going on holiday but they can’t do that now!

As a parent of a child who misses a certain amount of time off school due to medical reasons, I very much object to her absence being considered the same as someone who is taking 2 weeks off for a holiday. Perhaps it was possible to tell the difference I wouldn't get so many letters about my child's attendance.

Fine if you don't do it for anyone. Not ok to draw a moral line between children who are ill and children who are 'relaxing in the sun' as if they have any choice over their school attendance.

Authorised absences look better yes, but they're not accurate. Likewise positive wellbeing surveys look good too....but they're actually damaging if they're not true.
I wouldn't want a parent to lie, and as a parent I wouldn't do this myself because I don't want my children to lie. When they are older/mature enough they can work out the subtlties of white lies etc but when young I think it's damaging to encourage lieing particularly to a trusted adult like a teacher. The mixed messages aren't worth it.

I'm a teacher (secondary) and partially responsible for logging and chasing absences. I'd much rather parents are honest, role modelling for their kids. I don't care about the kids going on a holiday, but I do care that parents are expecting their to be dishonest.

I don’t think schools can authorise absence for holidays? I have taken mine out on two occasions (one day each) and told the school why- they replied and said thanks for letting us know, this will be recorded as unauthorised abscence.

when attendance figures are looked at we have to have good reasons for authorising absence. If we have authorised absences immediately before or after holidays we have to explain why it’s been authorised.

Authorised or unauthorised it is still absence for the data so makes no difference to us. Too much authorised absence is going to be queried.

Teachers may not really care but attendance officers do and are the ones interrogated about attendance data by Ofsted.

No they can't . This thread is about people who say their children are ill rather that admitting that they are holiday and it is therefore recorded as authorised absence.