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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Male Dominated Work Place

65 replies

Northerngirl87 · 21/06/2023 23:30

I work in a large team at senior management level. I am actually the only female. I am confident I am well respected for my work outputs and have a good working relationship with my colleagues. A supplier has arranged a golf day for our team, I was not included in the original invite which has caused me some annoyance as I work as closely with said supplier as my colleagues. The invite has since been forwarded to me and when I mentioned it to a colleague, he said ‘if it’s not your thing, you don’t have to come’ I know he meant well and was giving me a get out of jail free card but AIBU to think that as they know 6 hours on a golf course with 10 men is ‘not my thing’ then it shouldn’t be going ahead? I don’t want to cause a scene and I have declined the invite (I will just say I have a full diary that day) but I am disappointed and feel slightly excluded. I don’t want them not to do something they enjoy but it’s not sitting well with me. I might just be being sensitive.
Any Advice would be appreciated

OP posts:
Justlovedogs · 22/06/2023 09:31

JennyForeigner · 22/06/2023 09:21

'Are suppliers supposed to take inclusive gender or sex into account in deciding the perks they offer?'

Er, yes. Everyone is, that's the point of a fair and just society.

But in these circumstances you're unlikely to find something that suits everybody? The supplier has organised something for the majority. The worst part is not inviting OP.
I also work in a male dominated industry, have done for 30 years. I don't play golf but would still go if invited. Golf clubs tend to do a good lunch and I'd probably pick a group of golfers I was friendly with to follow on their round to join in with the banter. 🤷‍♀️

DreamItDoIt · 22/06/2023 09:32

The invite should have included you. I do think men are more likely to go in something like this if they've never played before.

Imo golf is not an elitist sport. It's actually cheap for youngster because mostly clubs are offering free membership or very reduced eg my local club is £100 a year for a teenager. You don't need a full set of clubs when you start. Shorts and a t shirt and trainers. Get in young and it's easier. It's a shame girls aren't encouraged to do it, then we'd see posts where couples are fighting for whose turn it is for 18 holes instead of it always being men and their hobbies.

jellyminelli · 22/06/2023 09:52

I'd be having a sharp fucking word with the supplier. And I'd go to the golf day. Loads of women golf

lljkk · 22/06/2023 10:00

I'm scared of heights so ballooning would be out for me. <shudder>

I'd like a free paddleboarding session, though.
I perceive that most people don't like any actual exercise, but golfing is only just more than walking, so can be acceptable.

elastamum · 22/06/2023 10:01

The big issue is that you were not invited. This happened to me when I joined a new company. A supplier put loads of effort into entertaining my male boss and direct reports, ignoring me, completely missing that I was the key decision maker. They were gobsmacked when they didn't get a big contract.

Coolblur · 22/06/2023 10:06

Suppliers who exclude key players in their relationships with other businesses are shooting themselves in the foot. The whole point is to create and maintain a good relationship with the other business, but by excluding you, a female manager, in what could be perceived as an invite to a men only jolly they should be perceived by your employer as a supplier who doesn't show consideration and respect to the companies they work with. It should actually damage their relationship with your company, not just you.

I'd advise your employer and the supplier, either directly or via your employer, that you were excluded from the original invitation. Both need to realise the magnitude of the error. Make sure everyone knows they've made a reputation damaging mistake.

The activity is relevant because golf days are traditionally set up and attended by men with the aim of networking and improving businesses relationships. As to whether you should go or not I don't think it's as straightforward as whether or not you want to do the activity. As a woman, who wasn't originally invited, declining or accepting makes a statement, far more so than it would for any of your male colleagues.

SkankingWombat · 22/06/2023 10:09

massistar · 22/06/2023 08:24

Surprised at so many posters not seeing how this epitomises the old boys club and isn't acceptable. I work in IT and am often the only woman in teams and meetings. This would not be seen as ok by the company I work for who work very hard to be an inclusive environment. Shit situation OP and I'd be angry too.

I don't think it's blindness, more seeing that it can be beneficial to show you won't be pushed out and excluded, and can do anything your male counterpart does. A complaint to HR is all well and good to get change on the practical side, but it is more effective if you can start to shift the attitudes of the sexist dinosaurs. Maybe it is industry dependent, but in construction (especially within the trades where sexism and misogyny is still overt), a complaint to HR/Management/Boss would further ingrain the disparagement shown from your team members and make daily life harder even if HR policies are now being followed. You have to play by their rules first to break them later. I found once you're accepted as 'one of them', you can then start pointing out the wrongs and make suggestions, and the team are receptive to it. The change is better when it comes from new team attitudes rather than enforcement from above. It shouldn't have to be like that, but it is (and it's partly why I'm now a sole trader - I don't have to deal with that bullshit any more!).
Obviously, the initial lack of invite is really awful. I would have countered that with a teasing & sarcastic mouthful of bravado (and keep the seething inside for now) "What's this I hear about Neanderthals'R'Us organising a golfing trip? Did my invite get lost in the post or are they scared they'll get beaten by a 'girl'?" completed with a sympathetic head tilt.

ChocChipHandbag · 22/06/2023 10:30

How secure is this supplier in their relationship with your company? How much influence do you, personally, have over decisions to award them contracts?

I work in a client-facing professional services job so we are the “supplier”. It would be a massive mistake for us to organise an event and deliberately exclude one person while inviting their peers. We might organise something that potentially only has niche appeal (a recent example is a marquee at a Rugby event) but we’d invite everyone and let them decide if it was for them or not, and we’d balance it with other events with wider/different appeal.

With golf, some of my colleagues do play with individuals at some clients, and those games tend to be organised because they have similar skill/experience, and are probably members of the same club anyway. But that’s no different to me taking a few individuals out to lunch or to a show.

What really stinks here is the assumption that as a woman you would not be interested in golf. I also have the sense that novice golfers not welcome at the event? My mother in law is a very keen golfer and her club is stuffed full of ladies. My husband, a white middle class man who works in banking, has never picked up a golf club in his life! Tell me, is every other man in your organisation a competent golfer? As others said, there are so many social reasons why it’s not a universal male hobby either.

In your position I would not be letting this slide and would be having a serious conversation with the supplier about what a massive insult this is to you. It might get them to up their game generally as they grovel not to lose the business, even if there is no real risk of that. Win win, right? You have power here, use it.

ScribblingPixie · 22/06/2023 10:36

I'm struggling to understand why the supplier didn't invite you, or thought it was ok to exclude you? Was the whole team invited except you? I'd be speaking up about this if so.

rwalker · 22/06/2023 10:39

The gripe is with the supplier not your work

out of order not to invite you
But you can’t dictate it not to go ahead because you don’t like it

Woodywoodpeckerharrison · 22/06/2023 11:33

Orders76 · 22/06/2023 00:05

I have to say this would really annoy me and I would attend, badly.
Can you please help with these clubs, which do I use?
I'd also be asking HR to be involved in next setup.

HR isn't there to sort this sort of thing out.

massistar · 22/06/2023 12:23

All I can say is I'm glad that I don't work with dinosaurs. And I disagree that it's just a problem with the supplier. My company is open about doing business with suppliers and clients who share our values. If companies don't propagate this from the top down then I can guarantee that one woman with a sassy response isn't going to change a thing.

MmePoppySeedDefage · 22/06/2023 13:42

Maybe the supplier will correct their mistake by arranging something you might enjoy. I must say I'd raise it with someone at the supplier.

I've been on some great women-focused corporate entertainment - Coutts used to be particularly good at coming up with enjoyable events. Much more fun than golf - not many people play golf any more, do they?

lljkk · 22/06/2023 17:02

oh wait, OP hasn't been back. There are a huge number of backlog questions OP could answer that could mitigate the raw impression OP initially gave. Like... how did supplier even get a list of names of who works at the company.

I happen to walk thru golf courses A LOT (long story), in different parts of England. There are many women on golf courses. I'd wager the sex balance that I see is very close to 50:50.

I was walking on a popular long distance off road cycling route today (Rebellion Way) for about 20 minutes: several groups of only cycling women came thru, there were no groups of only blokes. I came across a granny chain gang the other day down in Hampshire: as in, the median age of the all female road-bikes cycling group seemed about 62. So much for stereotypes who does what.

2birthdayday · 22/06/2023 17:11

If it is a hot day, you can think of them sweating & sun burning whilst walking 10 miles round the course

Did supplier include food, drinks & hotel in the day out ?

Perhaps they should donate your missed participation to your choice of charity ?

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