Male Dominated Work Place

[Northerngirl87]

I work in a large team at senior management level. I am actually the only female. I am confident I am well respected for my work outputs and have a good working relationship with my colleagues. A supplier has arranged a golf day for our team, I was not included in the original invite which has caused me some annoyance as I work as closely with said supplier as my colleagues. The invite has since been forwarded to me and when I mentioned it to a colleague, he said ‘if it’s not your thing, you don’t have to come’ I know he meant well and was giving me a get out of jail free card but AIBU to think that as they know 6 hours on a golf course with 10 men is ‘not my thing’ then it shouldn’t be going ahead? I don’t want to cause a scene and I have declined the invite (I will just say I have a full diary that day) but I am disappointed and feel slightly excluded. I don’t want them not to do something they enjoy but it’s not sitting well with me. I might just be being sensitive.
Any Advice would be appreciated

I agree you should go, and don't assume they are all as good at golf as they think they might be

I do think I would raise it with HR though as it speaks volumes about the organisational culture.

This. You seriously expect them to rearrange an activity that an external supplier has arranged because you don’t like gold? Get over yourself OP.

I work in tech, male dominated, I'd be really annoyed if I hadn't been invited too but also as I play well and I'd love to beat them all

If it suits 9 out of 10 people it’s fine for them to plan - you can’t please everyone. However, you should have been on the initial invite.

I would be annoyed but I would go too, just for the principle of it. Maybe you’ll like golf?

I had similar but it was go-karting, and they kept it secret until me and the only 2 other female colleagues turned up to work and nobody else was there. It still annoys me thinking about it now!

I spent years in a male dominated Industry and this stuff always went on with lame excuses like 'women play golf too ' 🙄

I remember going on a work prize trip, partners included. My DP joined in the activities 'for the wives' 😂😂😂

I ended up discussing with my boss and the man who organised the various outings. Explained how it felt and that it wasn't inclusive, and gave some other suggestions.

As it's a supplier event it might be worth making a 'funny' comment about the golf event to make the point, or having a quiet word with a friendly contact there.

It's really fecking archaic behaviour and pisses me right off. It's this kind of insidious sexism that is just so shit, hard to pin down and name, but has an impact on women nonetheless.

Oh gosh we used to host these for clients and it used to drive me crazy. It’s so “old boys club” it’s ridiculous! Yes, I know there are women who play golf but to be honest, I don’t know a single one compared to the numerous men I know who play. Thankfully they seem to have been phased out but I’d probably go and have a good shot at it 😂

Is it more the choice of activity or the initial exclusion that bugs you more?

I'm a guy, and I'd hate this sort of thing, partly because golf isn't for me, and I'm a massive introvert, but I'd still go.

This is a bonding activity and if you don't go, you may find that decisions have been made without you, and they'll return an even stronger unit, excluding you further! Golf clubs are not cheap, so even if you don't enjoy the golf, the sun, bar and food is usually worth the trip on its own.

Make a joke of your playing, or better, make a joke of theirs! With guys, it's all about the banter, don't be shy. You'll play, and suck, as any new person will, and you'll probably get eye rolls... but that's fine! There is your opportunity to ask for pointers, as men LOVE to show off their knowledge! It's all about bravado. If there are any comments, remind them of the phrase, if you can't teach it to someone inexperienced, you don't know it well enough yourself... make your training a challenge! They'll be fighting over you by the end :)

Can you please spend the next year having secret intensive golf lessons please?

Then next year trounce the lot of them 😂

It was the supplier not your own boss and department that organised this. I'm guessing the supplier just picked an activity that was easy to organise and suited the majority of the group he was inviting. Not something that I could get worked up over tbh.

I meant to add that yes you should have been on the invite list to begin with.

@lightlypoached , what were your other suggestions?

Or what would others recommend?

It's churlish to get sniffy about a gift, though.

It might be worth finding out how many people who are going have played before. If they're all playing off single figure handicaps, then I would probably not go, but if people haven't played before (assuming you haven't), then it could be good fun! It's basically just a walk and a chat (interspersed with some swearing) after all!

@lljkk escape rooms, hiking, day at the races, ballooning (!) , indoor rock climbing, treasure hunt, private guided tour at a museum/gallery, photography class out and about, hiking a trail, paddle boarding, it's a knockout style team competition.

So many things that cater for all types of people. So many.

It's the sheer lack of imagination that gets on my tits too. And as I'm a woman I have tits to get onto 😂😂😂😂😂😂

I once won a place as the best manager from my branch to go to an event with the winners from the other branches. Also very male environment with no other women doing my job at all. The event was clay pidgeon shooting and some of the other participants were previously in the army. I had an awful day and would not go again.

Escape rooms can exclude people with claustrophobia. Hiking, rock climbing, hiking, It's a Knockout events can exlude people with hidden disabilities. Ballooning can exclude people with a fear of heights. Even a day at the races will upset some people because of a misguided belief that the horses are not treated well.

Yes I'd hate a golf day, but many potential activities can exclude certain team members. That's why corporate days out shouldn't be a "thing" at all.

It’s annoying but my idea of hell so I wouldn’t go.
I might respond to the supplier organiser via the forwarded invitation saying thank you very much for inviting me but I’m unable to go.

Is it in work time and are they getting extra time off or is it in their own time?

Golf - potentially indirect discrimination, as women are less likely to to play.

Not inviting you - direct and very deliberate discrimination.

The fault is with the supplier rather than your employer, but you could ask your employer to raise it with them if you're not confident doing it yourself.

And go. Be visible.

If you don't go, don't be nice and make polite excuses. Certainly don't thank them for inviting you when they didn't.

Surprised at so many posters not seeing how this epitomises the old boys club and isn't acceptable. I work in IT and am often the only woman in teams and meetings. This would not be seen as ok by the company I work for who work very hard to be an inclusive environment. Shit situation OP and I'd be angry too.

Even pitch and putt with some coaching and some alternative rules can make it more inclusive and fun than standard golf, eg some ideas here.

https://www.todays-golfer.com/news-and-events/general-news/2017/september/golf-course-games/

The OP should definitely have been invited and it could well be because the supplier assumed that, as a woman, she wasn't part of the senior management team. This happened where I work. A supplier sent gifts for our department head and they didn't send one for the only woman out of the 6, because they'd assumed she was someone's PA, despite taking the lead in certain workstreams

Accepting any social invitation from a supplier, where the supplier pays, would not be allowed in my company. This kind of thing is viewed as undue influence, the first step on the corruption ladder if you like. Can you tackle this issue from this angle?

This used to happen all the time when I was a young surveyor...I spoke to one of the clients about it once and the next 'away day' was go karting, which I loved because I used to race a bit as a child.

So I completely understand why you are annoyed, but I'm actually surprised a supplier can do this nowadays - even by the time I left my profession in 2012 ish, we weren't allowed to accept hospitality.

I worked in a male dominated work place I know some hobbies tend to have a bit of a gender split but apart from the initial non invite which is appalling why not have a go?

We had a dept cricket team and I played once when they were short, I was actually a hockey player. One guy said he could tell I was a hockey player by the way I held the bat. I had never held a cricket bat in my life, we were not allowed to play cricket at school as girls, this is the 1970’s. I scored four runs and got bought a few beers. I ended up marrying the guy who made the hockey player comment, who turned out being another hockey player.

'Are suppliers supposed to take inclusive gender or sex into account in deciding the perks they offer?'

Er, yes. Everyone is, that's the point of a fair and just society.