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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what toddler conformity is

15 replies

Feelinghawt · 21/06/2023 18:44

So my 2 DC (1 and 3) are quite spirited. Sweet boys who are fun loving and love to play and share but don't particularly listen.

At nursery it has been mentioned that my eldest DC doesn't really understand turn taking or sitting still and confirming at storytime etc.

I run on very little sleep and I will be honest days at home consist of playgroups and walks etc but when home they basically are allowed to free play and mess the house up as I am too tired to tidy as I go. I obviously say no if they are breaking or smashing things.

What is age appropriate discipline for toddlers? I basically was of the thinking they can be free to explore and only be reprimanded when damaging things??

OP posts:
RachelHair · 21/06/2023 18:50

I would work on the listening skills because they are harder to teach when they are older and really important. There's lots of ways you can make it fun and into a game, same with turn taking that's practice so playing board games can really help. With reading time, maybe try and incorporate a sit down and story with them every day (or every other day or at weekends) to help get them into the practice of sitting for stories. Of course free play is important to, but if it's being bought up by the nursery it's something which may become an issue once at school for the 3 year old, and those skills are always easily taught the sooner you start.

MollysBrolly · 21/06/2023 18:50

Means they are wriggling when all the other kids are crossed legged, hands on knees, backs straight listening intently to an informative half hour of story telling. Which is utter crap cos kids will wiggle and giggle and get bored. Spirited or not it sounds like a crap place for kids to be.

Chasetherainblownfearsaway · 21/06/2023 18:52

Do they sit and listen when you read to them?

Hugasauras · 21/06/2023 18:55

Well they should be getting a chance to practice turn-taking etc at playgroups too, or you can include it in your play together. I think at 3 the expectation is generally that they should be able to wait for their turn during activities at nursery. I'm not sure it's anything to do with discipline, it's just having that behaviour modelled and getting the chance to practice it.

Free-spirited children are lovely but there are always times when some quiet time or sitting still for a few minutes is a helpful skill to have.

Hugasauras · 21/06/2023 18:59

And it's definitely not mutually exclusive. Children can be free to play and have freedom to do what they like within reason obviously, but they also need to learn about their place in the world and that their actions affect others (and also that they are not the centre of the universe!). It's nothing to do with discipline as just encouraging and modelling behaviours that are useful for them in the world and as they prepare for school. You can promote turn-taking or sitting for a story without having to discipline in any way.

BertieBotts · 21/06/2023 19:04

Do you have a bit of a routine that you model and they follow?

I have to admit I used to be a bit like this as I thought it was easier not to make them do stuff and just let them do whatever they want, I'm not bothered by mess, but it ends up making more work in the end. If you can invest a bit (i know this may seem impossible!) of time/effort/energy into simple routines like getting dressed every morning and tidying up and keeping meals to be eaten at the table for example then it just gets them used to the idea that there are rules and expectations in general and they don't fight everything quite so much all the time so it isn't as exhausting.

It will be more effort at first to establish this as a new thing but it is worth it.

You say no sleep - are you cosleeping and breastfeeding the youngest (maybe also 3yo?) in the night too?

Do you have a partner?

It will be very little use to tell them off for breaking things if they aren't being taught and encouraged and modelled to treat their things with respect in the first place. They just won't understand where the line is, it seems obvious to you but it's quite nuanced for toddlers. However if you can get some simple rules and expectations in place you'll probably find they break stuff less anyway, simply because they won't be getting anywhere near that point before you intervene.

eddiemairswife · 21/06/2023 19:16

What do they Break? They shouldn't have stuff available that is breakable.

NuffSaidSam · 21/06/2023 19:55

Just three or nearly four?

Between three and four, as they build up to starting school, children should be able to listen to and follow basic instructions, sit and attend to something for short periods of time, follow a group activity (e.g. sitting on the carpet for a story or all going to wash their hands for lunch or all sitting down at snack time).

It's not really about discipline. It's also obviously not an all or nothing approach. They need lost of time to free play, but they also need time to practise the skills they will need for being successful at school. If you plan to homeschool then you're obviously free to take a different approach.

Does he play constructively? Will he do a puzzle, play a board game, build something with Duplo, play a game using his imagination etc. or is he just tearing about from thing to thing making a mess? Two very different types of play.

SnackSizeRaisin · 21/06/2023 20:12

I take a similar approach to you OP. Mine are free to play at home as long as not damaging property or each other. If they want to do playdough or painting it's under supervision but I don't often instigate set activities apart from stories at bedtime. They are encouraged to say please and thank you, to share toys etc, we always sit down together for dinner.
My 3 year old can sit and listen and take turns fine at nursery - she's probably one of their better ones. I've always put that down to her personality though. I think that the group situation is what helps these young children sit down to eat together etc. Not so much what you do at home. Do the nursery suggest something you could do at home, or was it just an observation?

coxesorangepippin · 21/06/2023 20:16

Toddlers aren't supposed to conform

It's an evolutionary thing

risk n all that

BertieBotts · 21/06/2023 20:20

By the way - by tidying up - I don't mean that you need to be obsessively following them around with a dustpan and brush and shouting at them for dropping a single crumb, or having draconian rules about how many things they can have out at once. I just mean things like this have been helpful (to me).

Have a massive declutter - less stuff is much easier to handle for everyone. I've always been a messy person and I really like the podcast A Slob Comes Clean as she has helped me with a lot of things about this. Also you can watch Stacey's Sort Your Life Out on iPlayer which has a lot of episodes with young children which can be helpful/inspiring.

Downsize toys, and sort them so you don't have endless boxes of mixed things which are just instantly dumped out every day because they are looking for one specific item at the bottom of the box and can never find anything. Sort everything into individual boxes by type of item. You can do this slowly bit by bit if you don't have a lot of energy or time, just start with a box for the most popular item that they have (for my kids it would be toy cars, trucks, vehicles - even when everything is shuffled, I could easily empty out a drawer or box and fill it only with those). If you're doing it bit by bit, put any leftovers into any other "unsorted" box for now. Label the box with stickers, a printed out photo, or terrible drawing stuck to the front of the box with sellotape so that non-reading children can understand. Examples of categories that we have (my youngest are 1.10 and 4.10):

Balls
Cars/vehicles (matchbox/hot wheels size)
Animals/farm/dinos/fence
Chunky toddler cars/vehicles
Tools, construction
Mega bloks
Wooden train tracks + compatible trains
Doctor's kit, baby doll, accessories
Musical/sound/baby toys
Stacking, nesting toys
Kitchen stuff and food
Large vehicles (fire engine, rubbish truck, digger)

Get rid of things that are too little for them, put away for now things which the baby will chew or break. Keep board books accessible, put picture books and lift the flap books and pop up books somewhere higher.

Pare down duplicates or excessive amounts of anything (e.g. you probably want a few cars, but you don't need hundreds). Get rid of anything broken or that doesn't work properly or is always running out of batteries or that they find frustrating and abandon quickly.

Any items like shape sorters which are useless without all of their pieces, get rid of all but about 2-3 max, store the pieces inside the main part and put them somewhere they need to be asked for.

Toys which the baby needs to be supervised around (lego, marble run, colouring) store in a visible box that needs to be asked for.

Board games, puzzles, keep only the ones they actually play with and get rid of (or put away for when they are older) any which are just too annoying. Or you can rotate these out so only have a couple available at any one time, so the pieces can't get mixed up and lost constantly. Have a "lost pieces box" and any random jigsaw, game, toy pieces you find go in this box and when you need something you check here for it.

The point of doing all of this is that it makes their play a bit more focused and clear. You can instantly see that they are playing dinos, and the trucks that are on the floor over there aren't part of this game so they can be tidied up, and it only takes a minute because it's a few trucks rather than every single toy that they have ever owned. Or they are playing trucks now and the dominoes they got out earlier have been abandoned. Or maybe they are playing dinos get in the trucks and have a ride on the domino road - this is fine - but then the play kitchen stuff can be tidied back up. When they want to play trucks, they can just get the truck box, and they don't need to dump it out because it isn't full of random other stuff and they can see everything, so it's easier to put the trucks they were playing with back. When they want to make a farm, they can find the fences because they're in the same container as the animals, and they don't need to go galumphing through everything else you own to find them, and when they do find them, they all fit together because you've got rid of the odd non matching ones, so they aren't instantly frustrated and throwing a tantrum.

Another thing you can do if you want to is to rotate toys. Some people find this amazing and helpful and some people hate it. It doesn't work for me, but it can help a lot with keeping things fresh and exciting (which reduces them getting instantly bored and getting out every single toy) as well as reducing the volume of toys available to get out.

And when they want one of the items that's visible but not reachable, you say something like "Yes - I can get that for you, but first we need to clear a space." and then you know that it's out so you can keep half an eye that the pieces don't get abandoned everywhere and when they have finished with it you can put it away.

At first when you set this up you just tidy around them. Not constantly - just when you happen to notice one of the previous scenarios, go and pick up those trucks and put them back in the box. Go and put the kitchen stuff back in that box. Because it's only 1-2 category's worth at a time it takes a few seconds to put away (rather than the hours of tidying associated with general constant mess) and instantly they have more space, which they will get used to and come to value. They do not value this currently, because they are not used to it. They will probably be confused about why/what you are doing (and resistant if you try to involve them) if they are not used to tidying, but if you explain "I'm making you some space so you can play with your toys" they will soon start to see the benefit of this and once they do, then you can encourage them to join in. Even before they see this, start a nightly tidy up that involves everyone, showing them that the pictures make it easy to see what goes where. Praise them when they join in, make it a game, put a tidy up song on, whatever makes it fun. 1yos are great for this because you can show them and they just think it's a fun new game and everyone claps and cheers, and then the 3yo sees the baby getting praised and wants to show how well they can do too. Don't start this on a day they are brain-meltingly exhausted, and don't push it initially if they are pushing back, it's best to get a positive start rather than establishing it as a hated chore. (Once it's an established habit, then you can insist). But the adults should at the very least try to tidy up after they are in bed. Then you have a clean start the next morning so they aren't piling mess on top of mess on top of chaos when you haven't even had a coffee yet. You can even get one box out invitingly and place it in the middle of the room, which somehow often has the magic effect of enticing them to play only with that box of stuff for ages.

3WildOnes · 21/06/2023 20:24

Do you teach them to sit down nicely at the table for mealtimes? Do they sit still when you read them stories at home? If they had paints or playdough out at home would they listen to you if you asked them to sit nicely at the table whilst doing these activities?

Feelinghawt · 22/06/2023 08:18

Thank you very helpful tips and insights.

He has just turned 3. Yes 1 year old co sleeps and breastfeeds.

They sit at table for dinner and will listen to instructions at home and listen to stories and do an activity although it can be short lived. Screen time is asked for a lot. I don't know if this is relevant.

I think a toy declutter needs to happen thanks for tips.

Like I say they share and are kind, well mannered kids say please and thank you. I think they just love to explore. He has only been in nursery a month so maybe he just needs time to adjust to their 'rules'.

OP posts:
Ofcourseididthat · 22/06/2023 08:23

I imagine that probably is what it is to be honest @Feelinghawt . Mine is fine at nursery and ignores me at home (though slowly getting better!)

BertieBotts · 22/06/2023 12:59

Oh only being in nursery for a month is totally valid info - this is probably what it is then, adjusting to a new place and new rules, especially if he has not often been away from you. If you haven't noticed any particular difficulties with sharing/turn taking when you've been to playgroups, possibly it might just be different wording that they are using or a different way they are approaching it and this is new to him. Maybe you could ask them if there's anything they want you to encourage at home in support of them.

I have managed to get my 1.10yo to sleep through about 80% of the time, which I didn't think was possible at this age (I have two older ones) in a gentle way but appreciate if you are not looking for sleep info at the moment (plus he is a bit older!)

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