Kids wearing cycling helmets, parents not

[Faveusernamewastaken]

Sorry but this is such a bugbear whenever I see it - a child on the back of their parent’s bike rightly wearing a helmet but the parent cycling isn’t. What if there is an accident, yes the child will be safe but their parent is risking their child seeing them with head injuries or worse. Please, please, please, from an ex-A&E nurse, wear a cycling helmet (cycling with a child or not)! No one thinks it will happen to them until it happens to them. Looking after your child means looking after yourself too!!

Bikingwithbabies, It's about lessening the risk, not eliminating it altogether. I'm not sure that's possible in most activities in life.

Crashes aren't the only danger that a helmet protects you against though! Unilateral accidents happen too! Is the slightly reduced risk of a crash enough to outweigh the risks from not wearing a helmet in unilateral accidents?

Exactly, you can't eliminate all risk. Which is why I don't understand why you'd choose to rely on cycling defensively alone, rather than (also) wearing a helmet.

Yes when riding with my child the reduced risk of a crash that would be dangerous/fatal TO HER is more important than the increased risk of a head injury TO ME if we crash or fall.

When riding without my child I wear a helmet as this changes this risk equation because I don’t have to factor her safety into the situation.

as a parent if you know you can take an action that reduces the risk of your child passenger being in a bike crash even if it slightly increased your risk of a head injury if you did crash wouldn’t you take it? Me not wearing a helmet reduces my child’s risk of being in a bike crash so I don’t wear one.

I do the same. If they don't wear a helmet they aren't allowed on their bikes. When my eldest was about 3 he was riding along on his balance bike. He hit a pothole and went flying over the handlebars straight onto his head. His helmet was smashed in quite a lot. He didn't have a mark on him. I'd take some convincing to think that helmets don't really help that much. Even if just a little why wouldn't you want that protection, especially for your kids!

😂

I don’t get it too and think the parent looks quite silly when I see it.

I feel I should add the kid wears a helmet all the time on my bike or hers as there is no benefit for her in not wearing a helmet. I wear a helmet when riding alone or when riding off road. I do want the protection, unfortunately while the stats show we are less likely to be squashed by a lorry with me not wearing a helmet I won’t wear one on the road with a passenger.

Me too. I was wearing a very expensive racing helmet which was smashed and bore the brunt of the impact. Had it been my skull that hit the ground I'd almost certainly be brain damaged if not dead.

About 30% of the kids at school ride a bike to school and all wear a helmet, as do their parents. I don't really understand why you wouldn't?!

Helmets should be compulsory. As should hi vis and reflective clothing.

But most cyclist seem to act in a very arrogant manner and don't bother with either.

If you’re hit by a drunk driver the chances are that they are going to mow you down, a helmet isn’t going to help.

Helmets aren't necessarily as effective at preventing injury as you might think. As PP said, some injuries can even be made worse if the rider is wearing a helmet

Most bike helmets are just polystyrene - if you're in a really bad accident they're not really going to make much difference if you fall and hit your head

People have died from being punched and their head twatting the pavement. Coming off a bike can cause a lot more impact than that.

Obviously if some muppet knocks you off at 50mph then it will probably not save you. But I have been in two situations where I have come off due to the actions of bonehead pedestrians or other cyclists and hit my helmet on the ground. In both cases I was very happy that I was wearing it.

Statistically the chances of you needing it are low. But it is not much of a hardship to put one on. Basically it is like an insurance policy.

I find the idea that the safety of cyclists depends on their visible vulnerability to motorists very troubling.

It shouldn't be for the cyclist to choose to reduce their protection so that drivers give them more space. The onus must be on motorists to see cyclists as human irrespective of how they are dressed!

Definitely an interesting point. Is there any information on how much the risk of a crash increases if you wear a helmet?

I'm not sure that I agree it's in your child's best interest to increase the risk of you getting badly injured if you crash or fall by not wearing a helmet, even if this means that your child is less likely to be in a crash at all. I think it is important for my child to have a healthy mother. It's going to be scant consolation to them if I end up with a brain injury or dead because I was not wearing a helmet if things do go wrong, surely?!

Also, the combined likelihood of injury for you both must be lower if you're both wearing helmets, even if it slightly increases the risk of something happening in the first place? As in: both wear helmets, 1 % chance of permanent brain injury for both in a crash, 1% chance of a crash. Only child wears a helmet, child has 1% chance of brain injury in a crash, parent has 10% chance of brain injury in a crash, 0.8% chance of a crash.

In the first scenario, both parent and child have a 0.01% chance of brain injury. In the second, the child has a 0.008% risk of brain injury, but the parent's risk is 0.08%. I've made these figures up, but intuitively I'd say that the increase in risk to the parent from not wearing a helmet is much bigger than the reduction in risk to the child from the reduced risk of a crash due to the parent not wearing a helmet. I suppose your choice depends on whether you value your child's safety alone, or your own as well. As I've argued, I think my own safety matters for my child too.

Also, what are you basing the assumption that your child will be injured or possibly killed in a crash/ fall, even with a helmet on, on, whilst you only risk a head injury, whilst not wearing a helmet? Surely the comparison is.

Lastly, has any research been done on drivers' perceptions of people cycling with children? I imagine that might influence their attitudes and therefore the risks to cyclists as well.

All of these people wore hi vis and a helmet

https://road.cc/content/news/hi-vis-jacket-blended-trees-277019

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-in-helmet-and-hivis-jacket-died-after-being-dragged-20-yards-under-wheels-of-truck-a3463236.html

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/killed-cyclists-helmet-smashed-to-bits-by-slow-moving-van-court-hears/

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cyclist-dad-three-died-after-27100882

Yes, they did. That doesn't prove anything though. You need to look at overall percentages of cyclists wearing hi Viz and compare likelihood of death in this group to the likelihood of deaths for cyclists not wearing this protective gear.

People die in car crashes whilst wearing seatbelts. That doesn't show that seatbelts are not the safest option though.

Possibly, but I was taking issue with the claim that defensive cycling could deal with all the scenarios I listed. It evidently can't. I'd still rather be wearing a helmet if I'm going to be knocked down

I’m so encouraged by the messages here. I’ve been on MN for years, and until recently there would have been mass agreement w the wrong (see all sorts of research quotednhere) opinion in the OP. Now, FINALLY, lots of posters seeing sense.

now, as it happens, after 20 years of not wearing a helmet, I’m back to wearing one - I think my reactions have got slower, and my risk of a self-inflicted slow fall/crash has increased. But when it comes to anything involving another vehicle, it’s absolutely clear that helmets almost never help… certainly didn’t help me when a driver hit me head on (he was turning, looking the other way, and on the wrong side of the road).
to keep cyclists safe we need to keep them away from cars. It’s really simple…

I've fallen off my bike twice. One I slipped on an invisible patch of oil, and once some bloke walked right out in front me when I was in the cycle lane. Both times the front of head hit the road, breaking my helmet both time. I dread to think what state my head would have been in had I not been wearing one.

My friend also told me a story about a woman who was cycle and fell off her bike, and hit her head on the kerb. Not hard, but in such a way it completely brain damaged her.

When people trot out the whole "it makes no difference in a major accident" trope, it really annoys me. You don't need to have a big accident to see the benefit of wearing one

And moving to the middle of a lane if there isn't room for a car to overtake so they aren't tempted, making eye contact with other vehicles joining a roundabout so you know they have seen you. Always assume someone will pull out in front of you. Never go on the nearside of a lorry or bus. Overtake rather than undertake. Assume every parked car will open their door just as you pass. Don't cycle in the gutter to avoid punctures and to give yourself room to move/fall off if someone gets too close. Clear signals so drivers know what you are doing. Ride a "sit up and beg" bike rather than a drop handle bar bike so you aren't leading with your head etc. Etc.

I do all of those. I also wear a helmet though🤷🏼‍♀️ I've also fallen off my bike despite these precautions

Ok, as long as we make wearing helmets mandatory in cars and require all cars to be decked out in hi Viz?

Incidentally it really seems to rile drivers if I'm in the middle of the carriageway, so whilst I've read it's safer, it doesn't always feel it.

I’m basing the assumption that in general being squashed by a HGV going at 50mph is going to be fatal to both of us but falling off the bike at 15mph is likely to break some limbs or get a head injury.

the accident that’s going to kill me or passenger - going under a lorry that got too close overtaking -a helmet isn’t going to help either of us survive that, I can’t prevent it that much by safe defensive cycling in primary position (we do a short stretch 3x week on a busy rural 50mph A road near a quarry that just can’t be avoided by taking a different route so are passed by quite a few tipper trucks) No helmet anecdotally and statically means we are passed wider and so less risk of being squashed.

the type of crash were we fall off the bike due to wobble/ice/leaves/water/random happenstance is much more likely to be at 10-15mph and so cause anything from grazes to broken bones to head injuries to yes death but it’s less likely. It’s already a very low slow stable cargo bike - no speed wizzing round corners going on here. I can modulate the risk of an accidental fall by safe cycling (not that I’m perfect at all) so less of a concern than the HGV squash scenario.

put me alone on my drop handle road bike, or both of us off road on a trail and it’s a totally different equation and the helmet goes on.

the amount of posters on her saying they think the no helmet wearing parent in this situation is an idiot is making the point - car driver thinks your a non helmet wearing idiot so they pass slow and wide, put on Lycra and a helmet and they think your safe and experienced so pass quick and close. I’m happy to be thought an idiot if it stops us being run over.

I normally wear a bike helmet, but if I forget it I don't turn around, and if I don't have it (ie, riding a hire bike), I still ride.

I think the jury's still out on overall safety impact because of the bad behaviour of drivers. It's car drivers that are the main threat and I won't cycle on busy roads. I figure the helmet will take the brunt off the impact if I misjudge a low branch or have a skid and fall, which are accidents that can happen on a cycleway.