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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to go against HV & midwife's advice

113 replies

Boymamabee22 · 18/06/2023 20:15

Combo feeding but I've been ff more this past week.

May have to move into temp accommodation so thinking of selling my perfect prep machine due to lack of space, etc.

Been told I shouldn't make bottles in advance and store them in the fridge (like I did with my first). Can somebody tell me why? Obviously I'll cool the bottles before storing them and I always make sure the fridge is clean.

Waiting 20 minutes for the kettle to cool and then another 20 mins for the milk to cool is a faff and v difficult with a screaming baby.

OP posts:
RosesAndHellebores · 18/06/2023 21:50

Well I don't know how DS survived. I sterilised the bottles, made-up 7oz of formula with 5.5 oz of boiling water, kept 6 bottles in the fridge for 24 hours and added 1.5oz of boiling water when a bottle was needed. He was never sick and never had the runs.

My Mwives told me to rest the breast, not rest the breast, to use breadt pads, not use breast pads. That being engorged was OK. Hollow laugh.

My HV told me shebwas responsible for immunities my baby, breast was best and when I rang and sobbed due to the pain told me to sit by the fire and wrap myself in a blanket. When I objected, she told me to phone the NCT. The NCT told me to take paracetamol every four hours to take the edge off the pain.

I followed the guidance of the NCT breast pump lady, a former A&E sister whontook one look at me, went to the chemist and bought me two bottles, a tinnof Aptamil and showed me what to do.

After infective mastitis, thrush of the inner breast, and a breast abscess it was the first time I was out of pain for ten weeks and DS settled. DS grew into a happy chap, brought me home a first from Oxbridge, got a PhD and made the 1st XI cricket, 1st XI football and 1st XV rugby.

The chair of the HV Association was quoted in the Times as saying the role of the HV was to teach ignorant mothers the three c's: cooking, cleaning and communication.

I'll listen to an experienced mother or fully qualified doctorel, before I'd ever listen to a midwife or HV again. When DD was born a few years later all went swimmingly because I banned the HV's from the house, had more experience and refused to let in more than two named community midwives.

ShowOfHands · 18/06/2023 21:51

Aah just checked. It's insufficient temperature rather than volume.

BettyBoopy · 18/06/2023 21:52

Hankunamatata · 18/06/2023 20:18

I'm totally out of touch as my kids are older but is there any reason you cant just put some boiling water into the bottle with the powder and top of with cooled pre boiled water (that you keep in the fridge)

This 💯

sandberry · 18/06/2023 22:13

It’s definitely how they make up powdered formula in NICU. My daughter was on powdered formula in the NICU of a very well known children’s hospital and later on the ward and in the PICU and they prepare formula 12 hours in advance.

Most preterm infants are on liquid formulas anyway but where powdered formula is needed it is prepped in advance.

ReadingSoManyThreads · 18/06/2023 22:16

Hi @Boymamabee22 , I'm a Food Safety Consultant, so qualified in food safety to the same level as Environmental Health Officers. The reason that formula should be made up fresh for each feed using boiled water from a kettle (not perfect prep machine), is because the formula powder is not sterile and contains food poisoning bacteria in it. It needs contact with the boiling water to make sure the powder reaches a high enough temperature to kill any harmful bacteria in it.

The perfect prep machine does not pass safety testing for this essential step of killing the bacteria, so they are not recommended.

It will always be safer to make bottles up freshly to order, as even making them with a kettle and storing in the fridge can mean bacteria can still multiply, this is to prevent your baby becoming seriously ill with food poisoning.

What you can do is add boiled water from the kettle, do not let it cool for 20 mins as then it won't be hot enough to kill the bacteria. Add about two thirds of the water required to the powder, shake well, leave it to stand to give the temperature of the water time for the bacteria to be killed. Then top it off with the last third with some water that has previously been boiled in the kettle but is now at room temperature or has been in the fridge, so that'll get the bottle to the right temperature quicker. This is safer than a perfect prep machine as the pp machine doesn't add enough water in the hot shot and the temperature isn't high enough to kill the bacteria.

TeaKitten · 18/06/2023 22:17

sandberry · 18/06/2023 22:13

It’s definitely how they make up powdered formula in NICU. My daughter was on powdered formula in the NICU of a very well known children’s hospital and later on the ward and in the PICU and they prepare formula 12 hours in advance.

Most preterm infants are on liquid formulas anyway but where powdered formula is needed it is prepped in advance.

This is a dangerous exception to the norm thankfully. It’s significantly more risky for babies in NICU and not something I would encourage anyone to think is ok in those situations. Especially in a communal fridge when the door can get left open and you’d never no etc. it’s just piss poor practice.

ReadingSoManyThreads · 18/06/2023 22:18

@Boymamabee22 if you need the bottle quickly, you can also pop the freshly made up bottle in a jug of cold water or run it under the cold tap to cool it down.

ReadingSoManyThreads · 18/06/2023 22:20

@Boymamabee22 you can also pre-empt when a bottle will be needed so right at the start of the hunger cues, get it made, it really shouldn't take longer than ten minutes or so to have it made up and ready using the methods I've mentioned.

Kidsaregrim · 18/06/2023 22:40

We have had lots of poorly babies whose milk has not been prepped or made correctly.

which but of this are you intrigued about? I would be happy to explain further?

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 18/06/2023 22:42

Kidsaregrim · 18/06/2023 22:40

We have had lots of poorly babies whose milk has not been prepped or made correctly.

which but of this are you intrigued about? I would be happy to explain further?

Has that been given as an official cause? Poorly with what?

Mommasgotabrandnewbag · 18/06/2023 22:47

We did this for our first, born in 2013.

Made enough for 12 hours, wash sterilise and repeat for overnight feeds. It's fine, they're still alive to tell the tale.

Mommasgotabrandnewbag · 18/06/2023 22:48

Just make sure your storage system is top notch and if in doubt, dump it.

Redebs · 18/06/2023 23:13

Dubaibutwhy · 18/06/2023 21:06

Hot water to sterilise the milk powder then cold water to cool it to drinking temp. Get your ratios right and it takes 5 mins.

Alternative is buying cartons for night feeds and pooping in microwave. Shaking to avoid hot spots obviously

Definitely don't poop in the microwave. That's not ok.

Mumtobabyhavoc · 18/06/2023 23:22

ChateauMargaux · 18/06/2023 21:26

@Mumtobabyhavoc... but that doesn't kill the bacteria in the powdered formula - it needs to be not less than 70 degrees when added to the formula.

You are not trying to kill the bacteria in the water by boiling and cooling, it's bacteria in the powdered formula that is the problem.

I stand corrected. Thank you for that. ☺️
I switched to doing it that way at about 7 months, so I guess was lucky! Thanks, again.

mrsneate · 18/06/2023 23:33

sandberry · 18/06/2023 21:21

It’s the second safest way. You absolutely can do it and anyone who doesn’t know that, hasn’t read the WHO or the NHS guidance.

Making up bottles in advance, flash cooling them and storing in the back of the fridge is safer than the flapping around with hot shots etc people do and safer than the perfect prep too.

Basically make up each bottle one at a time as needed (ideal)
or make in advance, flash cool, store in fridge and use within 24 hours. Obviously the less time you store the safer they are.
This is how they prepare powdered formula in NICU too.

Which nicu is this?!

We used ready made formula bottles on ours, which we open, make up into amounts and store in fridge for 10-12 hours

Breast milk is the same.

Nicu do not use powdered formula...

Mumtobabyhavoc · 18/06/2023 23:33

Mumtobabyhavoc · 18/06/2023 23:22

I stand corrected. Thank you for that. ☺️
I switched to doing it that way at about 7 months, so I guess was lucky! Thanks, again.

Was curious so just read the package. It states to use cooled boiled water. Doesn't specify water temp for mixing. Might be different country to country? I am in Canada. Brand is Enfamil. Used the same method with Costco's Kirkland brand. Obviously, follow package directions for the product you are using. Sorry for any confusion if you have different package directions there.

Nat6999 · 18/06/2023 23:48

I used to make up 6 feeds first thing in a morning while washing & sterilising the other 6 bottles for the evening & night feeds then put them in the back of the fridge. As ds was feeding at least every 3 hours there was no chance of any bottle being in the fridge for over 24 hours. As he got bigger I dropped down to only making 4 at a time.

Madwife123 · 18/06/2023 23:48

God this drives me mad seeing all this misinformation!

First of all I’m a midwife.
Second of all YOU CAN MAKE FORMULA IN ADVANCE AND STORE IN THE FRIDGE!!!!

Here is the link to the NHS advice. If you scroll down it explains you make the bottle up, flash cool it quickly and store in the back of the fridge (not the door) for up to 24 hours.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/bottle-feeding/formula-milk-questions/

Midwives used to teach mothers this. Then along came baby friendly initiative who quite literally stopped for a period of time midwives educating about formula feeding. We literally were not allowed. Now years of that and so much misinformation spread we have a whole load of mothers (and midwives) who don’t know what you can and can’t do anymore!

nhs.uk

Formula milk: common questions

Information and advice on formula feeding, including how much formula to give your baby, how many wet nappies they should have and how to handle feeds away from home.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/bottle-feeding/formula-milk-questions/

Madwife123 · 18/06/2023 23:49

@Boymamabee22 Forgot to tag you in my reply above.

Read the NHS link. You can make bottles in advance and store in the fridge!

Milkand2sugarsplease · 18/06/2023 23:49

The WHO has a section about making in advance and storing safely in the fridge for up to 24hrs. As long as you've made the bottles using booking water in the first place you're fine to make a few at a time and store for later.

mrsneate · 18/06/2023 23:50

Madwife123 · 18/06/2023 23:48

God this drives me mad seeing all this misinformation!

First of all I’m a midwife.
Second of all YOU CAN MAKE FORMULA IN ADVANCE AND STORE IN THE FRIDGE!!!!

Here is the link to the NHS advice. If you scroll down it explains you make the bottle up, flash cool it quickly and store in the back of the fridge (not the door) for up to 24 hours.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/bottle-feeding/formula-milk-questions/

Midwives used to teach mothers this. Then along came baby friendly initiative who quite literally stopped for a period of time midwives educating about formula feeding. We literally were not allowed. Now years of that and so much misinformation spread we have a whole load of mothers (and midwives) who don’t know what you can and can’t do anymore!

Page hasn't been updated in 3 years so not the most up to date information

TeaKitten · 18/06/2023 23:52

Madwife123 · 18/06/2023 23:48

God this drives me mad seeing all this misinformation!

First of all I’m a midwife.
Second of all YOU CAN MAKE FORMULA IN ADVANCE AND STORE IN THE FRIDGE!!!!

Here is the link to the NHS advice. If you scroll down it explains you make the bottle up, flash cool it quickly and store in the back of the fridge (not the door) for up to 24 hours.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/bottle-feeding/formula-milk-questions/

Midwives used to teach mothers this. Then along came baby friendly initiative who quite literally stopped for a period of time midwives educating about formula feeding. We literally were not allowed. Now years of that and so much misinformation spread we have a whole load of mothers (and midwives) who don’t know what you can and can’t do anymore!

It says if you can not make up fresh, and explains fresh is best. Seems you are no better than your colleagues.

Madwife123 · 18/06/2023 23:57

@mrsneate The NHS only updates when advice changes. That’s not unusual.

@TeaKitten No actually it says if you have to take a feed out with you etc. The first choice is always make fresh, but a safe second choice is storing in the fridge in a safe manner. All the rubbish on here about making with cool boiled water is dangerous and it’s this that starts to happen because we are not advising women how to safely store formula! That’s how perfect prep machine started which also isn’t safe. Women will make it easier somehow and it’s better they do the second safe alternative than some other dangerous shortcut because people tell them it isn’t safe when it’s absolutely fine!

Madwife123 · 19/06/2023 00:00

@mrsneate
@TeaKitten

Here is the CDC leaflet. Also says it’s safe to store in a fridge!

But you are perfectly proving my point that banning health professionals educating regarding formula and making us treat it like its poison has led to this.

https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/downloads/prepare-store-powered-infant-formula-508.pdf

https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/downloads/prepare-store-powered-infant-formula-508.pdf

Thesearmsofmine · 19/06/2023 00:02

Nobody is disputing that making it fresh each time is the most ideal way however it is not always realistic to do so and both the NHS and WHO say that to quickly cool and store in the back of the fridge is acceptable.

OP I did this with my 3 dc.