AIBU to feel like a failure? My daughter is so badly behaved!

[beebeegee]

My daughter is 7 and honestly the most turbulent child. She does well in school, but at home it’s an entirely different kettle of fish. She can be really funny, kind and caring, however she has daily meltdowns that are really breaking our family. This has been going on for years and it isn’t letting up. She screams at the absolute top of her lungs when things aren’t going her way. She wants control of everything and absolutely spirals when constraints are put on her. She quite happily follows all the rules at school but just won’t at home. I work with children and know all the strategies but nothing works. If we are firm, she gets more defiant. Distraction methods don’t work. The gentle approach has resulted in a massive power imbalance. She hits us and screams. These melt downs can even last an hour or two. Afterwards, when she is calm, she begs us not to talk about it. Getting mad if we talk about it. The neighbours have to put up with this daily, which just isn’t fair.

ive tried so hard with her but I’m just failing. I’ve made her a quiet place she can go to when things get too much, I’ve got staff in her school giving her extra support. The problem is, they see none of this in school. They see a very well behaved compliant child.

Ive wondered about things like pathological demand avoidance, but to be honest, nothing like that quite fits. I just don’t know how to move forward. Home life is now so unhappy, including for my other child. 😢 What do I do?

She sounds so very much like my son was at 7. He has ASD

I work with children and know all the strategies but nothing works.

I trust that you do know all the strategies and this is another reason I’m suggesting ASD because everything that works for a NT child will not work with a ND child, and can even make things worse (as in them and you and any siblings very unhappy). Even while exploring an assessment, you could start researching and using parenting techniques for ND children.

There is an interesting thread running currently about the lack of qualifications required to be an SEN teacher.

OP please understand that I'm not posting this to upset you, but your descriptions of your DD are typical descriptions of Autism presentation in girls. It is so so worrying that you can't see it.

Please find out more. Some excellent resources have been linked. It will help you at work - not just with your DD.

It's so important that myths - such as the one about eye-contact - are overcome. We need much better education for people working in the SEN arena.

I hope you can get an assessment for your DD.

I really think you should get an ASD assessment on her. I know you don’t want to think about it, and are looking the other way, but it is possible.

Children present differently, this ‘eye contact’ thing doesn’t mean anything. I know a good few children with ASD and they have no problems with eye contact, are also absolutely ok in school and are very good at school too.

You need to get an assessment on her. If she doesn’t have ASD then you can tick that off the list and go down another road then.

All the best.

She sounds very like my DD who is diagnosed with ADHD and ASD. She makes eye contact and has a fantastic imagination just like your DD and gets very upset if we try to talk to her about a meltdown after the fact.

Another one agreeing with looking into an assessment for asd. My dd is 15 and asd. Very social, witty, caring, sporty but does sometimes struggle socially which has become more obvious as she has entered the teen years. Main thing that jumps out for her are the sensory and noise related issues. Hates being in loud crowded areas gets very anxious, been to a few discos but admits she struggles with the noise. Finds family gatherings with lots of socialising hard, she's great for a short while but then needs to decamp to a quiet spot - she often says her social battery has run flat. She knows all this about herself now and knows what she can and can't cope with. Your daughter doesn't and doesn't have the language or understanding to communicate any of this to you, hence the meltdowns. My dd had many when she was younger but now is well able to advocate for herself and avoid environments that make her anxious.

As others have said they won't diagnose her with asd if she isn't but worth finding out

This is very true- especially if she has PDA traits: usual parenting/behaviour strategies will make things much worse for her and for you.

You could be describing my autistic DD here OP. Except DD also had issues with changes to routine and transitions (so they saw some of her struggles at school) and her eye contact isn’t great unless she’s very comfortable with you.

Could be sensory processing disorder and she’s bottling up the sensory overload until she comes home and explodes?

The current experience of ASD is the male version as girls have flown under the radar for years. It’s only now that female symptoms are being recognised.

My Dd talked early, was a real chatterbox, friendly, sociable, hardworking. But we’d have an hour of screaming every day after school. Girls often present with anxiety as the first obvious symptom. This was my dd when she was 9.

She makes eye contact and did imaginary play to a point if you listened properly to the play it was slightly off, it's hard to describe but it wasn't fluid and was often a rewind or copy of a program she'd watched or her day.

Ive always described DDs imaginative play as being ‘off’. Character names are always from tv shows, friends from school etc, never just a spontaneously made up name like DD2 does and it’s always acting out something she’s done/seen. Plus she narrates, rather than participates, if that makes sense. So she will say ‘we need to hurry, she said’ or ‘let’s go, billy exclaimed’ rather than just voicing the character she’s being. The paediatrician said her play was ‘very obviously autistic’ when you actually watch it closely, but at first glance she seems great at imaginative play.

It's just not regular behaviour, though, for a kid to scream like that for an hour at a time. I think more is going on, so it isn't the way it's handled that is causing it to be self reinforcing, I think, instead it's classic massive sensory overload. I am no expert so don't know why! But lots of posters mentioning autism sound like they could be right. It sounds like she just has too much to process.

I haven't read the whole thread so suspect this will just repeat what others have said but I so recognise these characteristics and behaviours. My DD was/is v similar. She's now 14 and is undergoing an assessment for autism. Good student, probably the most social of all of us, verbally articulate, very funny, and empathetic. However, we have been told that she is likely autistic. Now that we have looked into it more, I see that this is a distinct possibility.

Definitely sounds like ASD. Don't worry about not noticing, it took Tony Attwood 30 years to realise his son was autistic!

How can professionals not understand female ASD?

I normally roll my eyes at the immediate and persistent diagnosing of ASD on here, but in this case I think it’s a consideration and one I’m surprised has not come up before now…

Because training hasn't caught up. In the same way that the effects of pharmaceuticals are based on the male anatomy. And the positioning of car seat belts etc. General understanding of ADHD, ASD, and presumably lots of other things, are based on the way males present.
School staff etc will have been given little training in the first place. We had a specialist come in to our school once, ostensibly to monitor one of the kids who was getting distressed, but she also taught us staff so much about the condition that none of us were aware of. There was one child whose mum was convinced was Nd. Nobody in the school thought she was right (he's just a naughty boy etc) but the specialist watched the child, explained the triggers, showed us how to support him. We learnt a lot that day (including a bit of humility).
Our Supreme Leader many years ago however, once got up close to a small boy with clearly autistic tendencies (not yet diagnosed but in the process of being at the time), and snapped "look at me when I'm talking to you!"

Does she have siblings? What age/sex.

If you’ve met one person with autism…., you’ve met one person with autism. I know you are comparing her to others you’ve known to have autism but girls especially present so differently. Don’t discount it . The sensory stuff is 100 percent adhd/asd that you’ve mentioned. The meltdowns too that appear as if she’s being horrible to just you and your husband is just all the pent up emotions and sensory stress that she’s been masking all week. A bit like being on stage performing every day she’s at school. The best approach I have found is to give them space to have the meltdown and let them know where you are.

The doctor who diagnosed 2 of my dc also didn’t initially spot it in her own daughter! She is very open about it and how it has taught her a lot about how differently autism presents in girls and women.

Definitely agree that you should look into ASD. We are just about to discover how ASD really manifest in girls...

Like many others here, I think it could be a good idea to ask to speak to the school SENCO and see if you can get their help to start an ASD assessment process. Your DD seems exactly like my DC when they were younger and one of the many things that the professionals took into account during assessment was the difference in behaviour at school vs home during term time and when meltdowns occured within that time (teacher reports vs my diary and vids) Look up the Coke Bottle effect and it matches what your DD is going through.

I would agree that it sounds like she is ND. My granddaughter has been diagnosed as PDA. Her behaviour at school is fine but at home in her safe space she has meltdowns after a particularly difficult day. Read about girls masking and how ASD looks different in girls. My granddaughter is very articulate and can hold eye contact. Not all ND children are the same. Does she have any sensory issues like not liking noisy or busy places or struggles with some foods or clothing?

^While I don't excuse her poor behaviour towards you and your husband, I think life can be really full
on for some kids.
All the things you mentioned are stressful for adults as well.
Do you live in the city?
Do you get time to sit in nature and be calm?
No advice but peace does work for kids. Also school is so regimented and rules etc etc ( which are needed)^

I agree with this.

I swear by Bach Rescue Remedy. Have been using it for at least 40 years, on my DS too (he's in his 30's now), it even works on animals and drooping plants!
It comes in cream form too and is brilliant for all kinds of scratches and scrapes. (After disinfecting of course!).

I do think you should also keep all other options open too OP like having her assessed.

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A lot of that sounded like "coke bottle effect" ... its wise to have a quiet space for her and perhaps suggest that she goes to her quiet space for an hour after school so that she can unwind from her day there before addressing any evening demands.

In the meantime, while getting assessed, try using parenting techniques that removes "power dynamics" from the situation... just go ahead and treat it as if she does in fact have PDA today. This of course takes a lot of creative thinking, but try instead to introduce "natural consequences".

For example, if she's refusing to do homework, you don't need to discipline for that. Let school do it (and they can take the heat).

Or more like from a coaching standpoint. She seems quite self-aware, so just remind her of natural consequences and try to make it clear that you're actually on her side.

Also, in any task, see where she gets to take 'control' of something and shift the perspective a bit... allowing for some autonomy.

When she comes to you with a 'NO' ... see how you can shift it to a 'Not Now' and giving her that little bit of autonomy to chose when something gets done but also within reasonable expectations, "Okay, I don't expect you to take the recycling out now, but it needs to get done before it gets dark or else you won't be able to see which bins to sort the recycling in." and then back off and see if she picks up on that.

And if she doesn't pick up on it after-- let's say 20 minutes, go back and offer to help get her started on the task.

I know I gave some very specific examples but hopefully clues in on ways of addressing PDA. I found this book insightful even for strategies that work for all children: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Understanding-Pathological-Avoidance-Syndrome-Children/dp/1849050740

Give yourself and her some grace. <3

Oh yeah, another tip... if you have household smart devices, such as an Alexa, let Alexa run the morning & evening routines. Invite your daughter to make up those routines, to program Alexa for it, and then to follow through on that agreement. It gets her buy in because its something she's taking responsibility for, for herself, by her choice. And then hey-- she shouts at Alexa and not you =)