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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School withholding food as punishment

296 replies

catgirl1976 · 15/06/2023 16:25

DS is due to start high school in September.

I’ve just seen a highly alarming thread about the school in a local Facebook group.

Massive disclaimer : Obviously people can write any sort of garbage on social media and it may well not be true and I will of course be speaking to the school at the earliest opportunity to gain clarity before taking any action but enough people have confirmed the allegations to make me a bit worried.

The issues raised are

  1. Toilets are now pretty much all gender neutral. I can deal with that - I know enough about the law to be confident I. Challenging and ensuring sufficient single sex provision is in place so whilst I’ll be challenging if true I’m confident in my ability to do that.
  2. Kids are getting a detention for being one minute late. I can live with that. Late is late. Important lesson.
  3. Classrooms are 29 degrees (new building has thermometers in each classroom) and kids cannot have water during class or in the playground at breaks. Seems a bit mad. Willing to listen to the rationale and alternative arrangements if this is true.
  4. This is the big one for me…kids are routinely being denied lunch as a punishment for bad behaviour. I am totally fine with appropriate sanctions for bad behaviour. E.g. mess about in the lunch queue eat lunch in isolation or miss break. But actually not he allowed to have lunch? To be denied food? Surely that’s illegal? I would have thought this was nonsense but at least 10 people have commented that their child has been denied lunch. No other arrangements or food just no food. So breakfast at home and nothing to eat all day. Surely this cannot be legal?

as said before I’ll check with the school about the truth of this and points one to three I can deal with but if point four is true and good is being withheld as a punishment…what would you do? There’s a transition evening coming up where I will have chance to ask questions and I’m gong to email the school asking for their response to these comments but surely a school can’t deny a child the opportunity it y to eat as a punishment?

Even googling I can’t find any incidences of this. It seems barbaric. AIBU or is this a thing?

OP posts:
MysteryBelle · 15/06/2023 20:45

NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/06/2023 20:26

Well, you've misunderstood where they said thermometers, not thermostats. Two completely different things.

I thought that was a typo, buildings normally have thermostats which also have thermometer readings.

Regardless, the school seems to have no air conditioning whatsoever which is ridiculous, incompetent use of funding. The proper care of children is the first priority.

Also, there is a possibility the op posted on purpose extreme allegations that might or might not be true, several parents said yes but some said no, to get others up in arms then come back and say, oh no the school isn’t doing any of these things except for like the gender neutral bathroom and look how great that really is. I don’t think op is necessarily doing that, but so many times on this site we’ve been misled by posters so we have to keep the possibility in mind.

I will never blindly go along with any powerful entity who decides draconian rules for the masses. I think for myself and I will never be a useful minion for agenda enforcers.

likeafishneedsabike · 15/06/2023 20:46

MysteryBelle · 15/06/2023 20:37

No excuse for not adding air conditioning to a new school in an area that has times of hot weather.

Stop and think this through. Education is woefully underfunded and this is common knowledge (I think). Air con is extremely expensive to install. For example, I don’t have built in air conditioning units in my home. Do you? What’s more, air con guzzles electricity. In an education system crippled by underfunding, where is the money coming from to instal, maintain and power aircon.
Surely you follow the news and have seen the teachers campaigning for pencils and glue sticks in their classrooms. If there were money for air con then why would educators be spending chunks of their own wages every month on basic classroom supplies for the children?

MysteryBelle · 15/06/2023 20:52

likeafishneedsabike · 15/06/2023 20:46

Stop and think this through. Education is woefully underfunded and this is common knowledge (I think). Air con is extremely expensive to install. For example, I don’t have built in air conditioning units in my home. Do you? What’s more, air con guzzles electricity. In an education system crippled by underfunding, where is the money coming from to instal, maintain and power aircon.
Surely you follow the news and have seen the teachers campaigning for pencils and glue sticks in their classrooms. If there were money for air con then why would educators be spending chunks of their own wages every month on basic classroom supplies for the children?

Cut the salaries and perks of the bureaucrats who are making the “rules” for the rest of us. In fact, fire them. Education is not underfunded. The bureaucrats are mishandling the funds, enriching themselves and forcing the teachers to buy supplies out of their own pockets.

The more money you give them, the more they will put in their own pockets.
You are parroting the very people who run the corporations and own the news orgs “too costly for the little people to have air conditioning” “time for the little people to make do with less” while the arbiters of supposed truth live large on the little people’s money, by hook or by crook.

I think you are the one who hasn’t thought this through.

L3ThirtySeven · 15/06/2023 20:55

MysteryBelle · 15/06/2023 20:52

Cut the salaries and perks of the bureaucrats who are making the “rules” for the rest of us. In fact, fire them. Education is not underfunded. The bureaucrats are mishandling the funds, enriching themselves and forcing the teachers to buy supplies out of their own pockets.

The more money you give them, the more they will put in their own pockets.
You are parroting the very people who run the corporations and own the news orgs “too costly for the little people to have air conditioning” “time for the little people to make do with less” while the arbiters of supposed truth live large on the little people’s money, by hook or by crook.

I think you are the one who hasn’t thought this through.

Bureaucrats- you mean civil servants on pay grades set by Parliament and published to the public? The same civil servants who have had years of 0% pay raises and no bonuses? Pay rates that are acknowledged to be a good 30% lower than for the exact same job in the private educational sector?

How are they enriching themselves?

likeafishneedsabike · 15/06/2023 20:56

MysteryBelle · 15/06/2023 20:52

Cut the salaries and perks of the bureaucrats who are making the “rules” for the rest of us. In fact, fire them. Education is not underfunded. The bureaucrats are mishandling the funds, enriching themselves and forcing the teachers to buy supplies out of their own pockets.

The more money you give them, the more they will put in their own pockets.
You are parroting the very people who run the corporations and own the news orgs “too costly for the little people to have air conditioning” “time for the little people to make do with less” while the arbiters of supposed truth live large on the little people’s money, by hook or by crook.

I think you are the one who hasn’t thought this through.

I can’t disagree. I have been to a MAT head office and the standard of office space can only be described as luxurious. Meantime the schools are sweltering, underfunded, understaffed shit holes.

Wishesa · 15/06/2023 20:57

None of it will be true, don't worry.

MysteryBelle · 15/06/2023 20:59

L3ThirtySeven · 15/06/2023 20:55

Bureaucrats- you mean civil servants on pay grades set by Parliament and published to the public? The same civil servants who have had years of 0% pay raises and no bonuses? Pay rates that are acknowledged to be a good 30% lower than for the exact same job in the private educational sector?

How are they enriching themselves?

No, only foolish people will buy what you’re selling. You are on purpose twisting what I said and claiming that I said the particular people you’ve trotted out to “debunk” are who I’m talking about. Save your pretend rage on behalf of hardworking civil servants, I’m not talking about people on low incomes who never get a raise. And you know it.

MysteryBelle · 15/06/2023 21:00

likeafishneedsabike · 15/06/2023 20:56

I can’t disagree. I have been to a MAT head office and the standard of office space can only be described as luxurious. Meantime the schools are sweltering, underfunded, understaffed shit holes.

Thank you.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/06/2023 21:04

MysteryBelle · 15/06/2023 20:45

I thought that was a typo, buildings normally have thermostats which also have thermometer readings.

Regardless, the school seems to have no air conditioning whatsoever which is ridiculous, incompetent use of funding. The proper care of children is the first priority.

Also, there is a possibility the op posted on purpose extreme allegations that might or might not be true, several parents said yes but some said no, to get others up in arms then come back and say, oh no the school isn’t doing any of these things except for like the gender neutral bathroom and look how great that really is. I don’t think op is necessarily doing that, but so many times on this site we’ve been misled by posters so we have to keep the possibility in mind.

I will never blindly go along with any powerful entity who decides draconian rules for the masses. I think for myself and I will never be a useful minion for agenda enforcers.

Contractors need to stop hiking up the prices once they've started - many new builds start off with one spec, but the costs go up and up until things have to be cut and lighting/security/heating/a roof/connections for IT and telecoms is more essential.

MysteryBelle · 15/06/2023 21:14

NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/06/2023 21:04

Contractors need to stop hiking up the prices once they've started - many new builds start off with one spec, but the costs go up and up until things have to be cut and lighting/security/heating/a roof/connections for IT and telecoms is more essential.

No, contractors have to legally abide by the final contracts negotiated between them and their clients, in this case the school, and there are strict protocols in place regardless. Air conditioning for children in hot seasonal weather is an essential.

Contractors will count the costs of supplies and labor, times, deadlines, and possible delays and the costs of supplies and labors are part of the final contract numbers that are signed off by all parties. There are addendums to clarify certain possible percentages over costs due to unforeseen hikes that will be agreed upon beforehand.

No excuse for mishandling education and building funds for children.

Expo23 · 15/06/2023 21:16

catgirl1976 · 15/06/2023 16:25

DS is due to start high school in September.

I’ve just seen a highly alarming thread about the school in a local Facebook group.

Massive disclaimer : Obviously people can write any sort of garbage on social media and it may well not be true and I will of course be speaking to the school at the earliest opportunity to gain clarity before taking any action but enough people have confirmed the allegations to make me a bit worried.

The issues raised are

  1. Toilets are now pretty much all gender neutral. I can deal with that - I know enough about the law to be confident I. Challenging and ensuring sufficient single sex provision is in place so whilst I’ll be challenging if true I’m confident in my ability to do that.
  2. Kids are getting a detention for being one minute late. I can live with that. Late is late. Important lesson.
  3. Classrooms are 29 degrees (new building has thermometers in each classroom) and kids cannot have water during class or in the playground at breaks. Seems a bit mad. Willing to listen to the rationale and alternative arrangements if this is true.
  4. This is the big one for me…kids are routinely being denied lunch as a punishment for bad behaviour. I am totally fine with appropriate sanctions for bad behaviour. E.g. mess about in the lunch queue eat lunch in isolation or miss break. But actually not he allowed to have lunch? To be denied food? Surely that’s illegal? I would have thought this was nonsense but at least 10 people have commented that their child has been denied lunch. No other arrangements or food just no food. So breakfast at home and nothing to eat all day. Surely this cannot be legal?

as said before I’ll check with the school about the truth of this and points one to three I can deal with but if point four is true and good is being withheld as a punishment…what would you do? There’s a transition evening coming up where I will have chance to ask questions and I’m gong to email the school asking for their response to these comments but surely a school can’t deny a child the opportunity it y to eat as a punishment?

Even googling I can’t find any incidences of this. It seems barbaric. AIBU or is this a thing?

3 and 4 are made up. Any school could have any number of disgruntled parents jump on and say that. There is always a group who struggle with critical thinking. 'The teacher wouldn't let me drink at break time' often translates as their water bottle was taken after being stopped from squirting it multiple times at other pupils. 'I wasn't allowed any food' often means the food they wanted had sold out, or they refused to choose food when in isolation then changed their mind when the whole school is on lunch so they can go into the canteen and see their friends/do a runner/have round two of the fight.
Random complaints loosely based on fact happen a lot in schools. We get complaints every week about not allowing students to use toilets since the Tiktok malarkey. Our toilets have no external doors or barriers. We have no governance over them due to their design. Some (double digits) students go a couple of times an hour to vape. When we see them on their fourth visit of the morning we will try and move them on or when smell the vape smoke we will bang on the door and four will emerge from a cubicle. We then get a phonecall from home to complain that we won't let them wee/wee in peace/attend to their 365 menstrual flow.
Anyway, my point is that 3 and 4 will be fabrications. If they really were true formal complaints would have been made and addressed by the governors. Plus people go to the papers about uniforms - shoes and haircuts so I am sure they would about starvation and dehydration if there was substance to it.

BeverlyHa · 15/06/2023 21:16

so you take things posted on fb FOR FACTUAL REALITY?

MysteryBelle · 15/06/2023 21:18

Otherwise the contracting company or the individuals they contract, depending on their own agreements with them, will have to “eat the cost” because they’ve already agreed to a pricing and timeline contract which is legally binding.

Betsybee88 · 15/06/2023 21:22

Kids lie to their parents.
Kids play victim when they are indeed the perpetrator.
I have a year 9, I can honestly say I've never once had a issue with her school but according to the school's FB page children are abused, treated like prisoners etc. It's normally the same parents, parents of the children that are known trouble makers.

Expo23 · 15/06/2023 21:24

Betsybee88 · 15/06/2023 21:22

Kids lie to their parents.
Kids play victim when they are indeed the perpetrator.
I have a year 9, I can honestly say I've never once had a issue with her school but according to the school's FB page children are abused, treated like prisoners etc. It's normally the same parents, parents of the children that are known trouble makers.

☝️

Whiteboardqueen · 15/06/2023 21:30

As a secondary school teacher for 30+ years I find points 2, 3 and 4 totally fallacious. Don’t be sucked in, OP. Think about it. Parents of children already at the school would have already contacted OFSTED if these practices were in operation.

toomuchlaundry · 15/06/2023 21:37

For those blaming Trusts spending vast amounts of money on the wrong things and there isn’t a problem with school funding are you saying that state maintained schools are rolling in it

L3ThirtySeven · 15/06/2023 21:40

NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/06/2023 21:04

Contractors need to stop hiking up the prices once they've started - many new builds start off with one spec, but the costs go up and up until things have to be cut and lighting/security/heating/a roof/connections for IT and telecoms is more essential.

🤪 Obviously never managed a construction project. It’s not like buying something off the shelf for a retail price. You start with an estimate of the costs and then things like differing site conditions, weather delays, supply shortages and so on often mean the costs were under-estimated.

Usernamenotavailab · 15/06/2023 21:43

My dc school has gender neutral toilets.

interestingly, it’s “gender neutral” and “girls”.

yes, they turned the boys toilets into the gender neutral space.

MysteryBelle · 15/06/2023 22:31

Usernamenotavailab · 15/06/2023 21:43

My dc school has gender neutral toilets.

interestingly, it’s “gender neutral” and “girls”.

yes, they turned the boys toilets into the gender neutral space.

Because it’s really the boys they’re after. The girls are just collateral damage to them (as usual).

Boys are their targets because males are generally biologically physically stronger and more “aggressive” therefore more of a potential threat to the authority of the powers that be.

It’s not about accepting people who do feel differently and need help and support. I’ve always done that before it was trendy. No, the transgender agenda is about something sinister, pretending to protect the rights of a small group of people but what they’re really doing is confusing, indoctrinating, and steering children and teens into normalizing the idea of taking puberty blockers, binding, and cutting off body parts while they’re so young and vulnerable and making sure parents can’t do anything to protect their children. They want to stop using the words mother and father. Think.

If the powers that be, the ones who push and enforce these agendas, control curriculums and newsrooms and government and global entities, can get little boys to think they’re little girls, meaning, to think they’re stereotypical versions of little girls playing dress up like their paid ambassadors Dylan Mulvaney and drag queens in libraries and schools and churches, Biden bringing in transgender influencer to make promotional spots in the White House, global efforts to push and promote transgender activists as noble, obsessed with purses, shoes, and nail polish and makeup and gowns, because that’s what makes them “girls”, and get girls to go along with this,

then there won’t be any men, or women, left to fight for the “women and children”, for the rights of people is what I’m saying, or for the UK, the USA, and the world.

Easier to control, restrict, reduce, and defraud the masses. Easier to manage the little people whose little dollars add up and are useful but who sometimes revolt and need to be tamped down.

Hence making a transgender “woman” in charge of the USA military and recruiting transgender spokespeople and focusing on sex agendas, which is presented as the most crucial global mission, more important than all other people, including sick children with cancer for instance, and all other priorities like feeding and housing the poor, helping families who need financial support struggling with high needs children and/or elderly parents. And yes, more important than air conditioning for children and school supplies. Oh they’ve pretended to care about these things, that’s how they’ve gotten our votes and support.

That’s why they pound the mantra that masculinity is intrinsically toxic (true masculinity is not toxic but a gentle strength, as is true femininity—gentle with the weak and powerless like little children, strong against predators), that children need to be steered into rejecting their bodies and who they are and instead “identify” as nonbinary (no such scientific thing), and need to put on little dresses and nail polish, and that men must be abolished, even good men. It is the bad men who are doing this, the same kind of bad men who exploited women and children in the historical past and now are placing men in women’s sports and private spaces, and there are willing women helping them do it.

pinkginfizz9 · 15/06/2023 22:42

I think its buy food. My dd has on occasion had to do a missed test on a lunchtime ( ie not a punsihment) and not had chance to buy anything

truthhurts23 · 15/06/2023 23:53

denying food and water is enough to call social services so why would it be ok in an educational setting ?
i was ready to say change schools after reading gender neutral toilets ..

3BSHKATS · 16/06/2023 05:45

likeafishneedsabike · 15/06/2023 20:46

Stop and think this through. Education is woefully underfunded and this is common knowledge (I think). Air con is extremely expensive to install. For example, I don’t have built in air conditioning units in my home. Do you? What’s more, air con guzzles electricity. In an education system crippled by underfunding, where is the money coming from to instal, maintain and power aircon.
Surely you follow the news and have seen the teachers campaigning for pencils and glue sticks in their classrooms. If there were money for air con then why would educators be spending chunks of their own wages every month on basic classroom supplies for the children?

Remember this when you are at the ballot box, my taxes haven’t gone down, have yours ? Wheres the money going ?

3BSHKATS · 16/06/2023 05:47

Expo23 · 15/06/2023 21:16

3 and 4 are made up. Any school could have any number of disgruntled parents jump on and say that. There is always a group who struggle with critical thinking. 'The teacher wouldn't let me drink at break time' often translates as their water bottle was taken after being stopped from squirting it multiple times at other pupils. 'I wasn't allowed any food' often means the food they wanted had sold out, or they refused to choose food when in isolation then changed their mind when the whole school is on lunch so they can go into the canteen and see their friends/do a runner/have round two of the fight.
Random complaints loosely based on fact happen a lot in schools. We get complaints every week about not allowing students to use toilets since the Tiktok malarkey. Our toilets have no external doors or barriers. We have no governance over them due to their design. Some (double digits) students go a couple of times an hour to vape. When we see them on their fourth visit of the morning we will try and move them on or when smell the vape smoke we will bang on the door and four will emerge from a cubicle. We then get a phonecall from home to complain that we won't let them wee/wee in peace/attend to their 365 menstrual flow.
Anyway, my point is that 3 and 4 will be fabrications. If they really were true formal complaints would have been made and addressed by the governors. Plus people go to the papers about uniforms - shoes and haircuts so I am sure they would about starvation and dehydration if there was substance to it.

The fact that you roll “ when in isolation” of your tongue like that’s fucking normal behaviour is just absolutely wrong.

Expo23 · 16/06/2023 05:50

3BSHKATS · 16/06/2023 05:47

The fact that you roll “ when in isolation” of your tongue like that’s fucking normal behaviour is just absolutely wrong.

Unfortunately sometimes students who have attacked others or staff members have to be isolated until we can get a guardian to come and collect them 🤷🏼‍♀️

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