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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be fed up with the amount of tax / ni I pay

698 replies

Elephantstone1 · 14/06/2023 09:08

although my salary looks decent from the outside. I’m beginning to get really fed up with the amount of tax / ni I pay.

so on £60k end up coming out with just around £3k per month from £5k after all taxes (including council tax) have been paid.

we’re not entitled to any help that others may get

my commute costs about £400 a month, but I’ve already paid tax on that money, so i have to earn about £600 a month to pay for it.

i know I’m lucky to be on a decent salary. Just with the col increasing, I’m getting a bit fed up

OP posts:
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9
Original poster
Elephantstone1 · 14/06/2023 21:03

Waitingalwayswailing · 14/06/2023 10:56

You won't and aren't getting much sympathy here. However I'm on a similar salary to you, but pay student loan (that I was forced to do by my school and then dropped out of but still have to psy the whole lot).

It's really upsetting to see the amount taken off me in tax and NI. I have had a 4% salary increase but see less than £70 a month of it after all the deductions.

Despite what people think, 60 ish k isn't a large salary, especially if living in a city (London for me)

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£60k in Scotland is a good salary. But I absolutely agree, in London it won’t go far.

OP posts:
HomesUnderTheWestHammers · 14/06/2023 21:03

LakieLady · 14/06/2023 17:51

I work in welfare rights and get sick of hearing people bang on about how easy it is to get shedloads in benefits. Quite apart from benefits being barely enough to live on (unless you're getting PIP), in many regions rents are so high that they take people into benefit cap territory so that they don't actually get the full amount, the processes and bureaucracy are so cumbersome that they're a nightmare to navigate.

While someone on the top rate of tax has a marginal rate of gain of 55% when their income increases, someone working, with earnings just above the tax tthreshold, and getting UC because their rent is unaffordable has a marginal rate of gain of around 32%, because UC claw back 55% of net pay.

Poor people have less of a financial incentive to earn more than rich people do, but they don't moan about it as much.

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Excellent response to an excellent post.

I always think, if high-earning, home-owning folk are so angry about/envious of people "not working enough" and claiming benefits, why don't they join them? Sell the house, work minimum wage, rent privately (good luck with that) and claim "top-ups". Live the dream!

Or nightmare, as it is in reality.

Original poster
Elephantstone1 · 14/06/2023 21:04

Tryingtohelp12 · 14/06/2023 10:59

Yanbu
to earn that salary you probably also pay a significant amount of student loan repayments too- it all adds up. I think most people are happy to pay taxes but it’s hard when your classed as a high earner (so not entitled to child benefit etc) but in reality your not living a ‘high earner’ lifestyle

Pretty much this!

OP posts:
Original poster
Elephantstone1 · 14/06/2023 21:05

Finefinefine · 14/06/2023 11:01

I don’t have a problem with paying tax on many things but I do 🙄 at paying for the “I won’t work more than 16 hours or it will mess up my benefits” brigade.

I know a few people that this is the case for. And I totally understand their point.

the benefits system is so screwed that it penalises people for actually working more hours

OP posts:
Original poster
Elephantstone1 · 14/06/2023 21:08

StormShadow · 14/06/2023 11:02

Do you have DC OP? You are at a particularly annoying marginal effective tax rates point in the system if so.

Hi; yes. It’s the whole child benefit issue. Sends me
crazy.

so a couple both warning £49k (£98k total) are entitled to it, but a single parent on £60k isn’t.

OP posts:
Kendodd · 14/06/2023 21:10

Why don't you quit your job OP. Get a minimum wage job as a care home worker, then you'll pay minimal tax and might be able to claim lots of lovely benefits because you can't feed your children on your wages.

jenandberrys · 14/06/2023 21:17

Kendodd · 14/06/2023 21:10

Why don't you quit your job OP. Get a minimum wage job as a care home worker, then you'll pay minimal tax and might be able to claim lots of lovely benefits because you can't feed your children on your wages.

This is such a lazy argument and also completely nonsensical.

Truestorypeeps · 14/06/2023 21:27

Elephantstone1 · 14/06/2023 09:08

although my salary looks decent from the outside. I’m beginning to get really fed up with the amount of tax / ni I pay.

so on £60k end up coming out with just around £3k per month from £5k after all taxes (including council tax) have been paid.

we’re not entitled to any help that others may get

my commute costs about £400 a month, but I’ve already paid tax on that money, so i have to earn about £600 a month to pay for it.

i know I’m lucky to be on a decent salary. Just with the col increasing, I’m getting a bit fed up

ROI earner here.... My salary is only €35k odd. However, I get just over €200 in something called family income supplement per month (paid weekly). Basically if your income is below a certain threshold, the government give you 60% of the difference between what you actually take home and the threshold amount. It rewards lower income families for actually going out to work and not just claiming benefits... I think it's a great idea as in the UK it seems the benefits brigade are better off than those on minimum wage!

So anyway, my take home pay for a 35 hour week is €2895 per month including that €200. I'm in Ireland so no council tax, no water charges. Bins are €30/35 a month from a private company though.

My wife is a SAHM to two DC's, so I am using her tax credits so I don't actually pay 'tax', only USC and PRSI deductions. I'm on the cusp though so next wage rise and I will start to pay the tax that they call tax!

To come out with 3k on 60k salary is frankly depressing.

Truestorypeeps · 14/06/2023 21:28

jenandberrys · 14/06/2023 21:17

This is such a lazy argument and also completely nonsensical.

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WHOOSH!

Fightyouforthatpie · 14/06/2023 21:30

TheThinkingGoblin · 14/06/2023 19:48

Thats always been one of the main problems in the UK.

Also, the anti-intellectual "I dislike math" vibe is very similar to what I have seen in the US.

In any event, the UK is circling the proverbial economic drain at this point, so we will are fairly close now to building the crucible for the economic reckoning that is about to hit us. Then we will just have to see how people react to being poorer.

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I have no dislike of math[sic] just a dislike of opinions being dressed up as facts - based on ridiculous interpretations of the stats.

Truestorypeeps · 14/06/2023 21:31

We also get €140 per month child benefit for each child. So €280 for our two. There's no decrease in money per child either (E.G. five children would get you €700 a month), mad really!

Original poster
Elephantstone1 · 14/06/2023 21:47

OpenDoors72 · 14/06/2023 14:25

Couldn't higher rate tax payers equally say:

"Suck it up buttercup (or get a higher paying job or two)"

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Well, exactly.

OP posts:
Original poster
Elephantstone1 · 14/06/2023 21:49

kethuphouse · 14/06/2023 14:32

It is an assumption but anecdotally just look around at all the extensions being built in middle class areas , and new (leased) cars in driveways . These are not 150k earners , these are middle earners , remortgaging to pay for their new new open plan navy blue kitchens.

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Oh navy blue!!! The horror

how do you know how much these people earn?

OP posts:
Original poster
Elephantstone1 · 14/06/2023 21:51

chupachucks · 14/06/2023 14:34

I already pay for private Health and all the extras, I also do not claim any benefits. What we are asking for is a fairer system for those in the middle, you work dam hard you start to succeed and you get crushed by the rich at the top and abused by those at the bottom.

We just ask for a fairer system for those who would like to achieve and make some thing of them self's not be kept down by those in the top and dragged down by those below who are jealous and not appreciative of those at the bottom who have clawed their way up.

The rich hide their money, the bottom all claim it and the middle pay for it. if you don't like us having a voice tough shit.

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This!!!l

incidentally, I think that many many jobs are underpaid. And we are susbsidising corporate cofffers with top up benefits

OP posts:
EffortlessDesmond · 14/06/2023 21:58

It's all very well reducing the discussion to personal taxation, but there is a Brexit issue to all this. The UK was a (the second largest) contributor to EU funding for a long time, and if you ever go to Spain or Portugal, you will drive across major feats of civil engineering that create fast roads to speed you on your way. It makes for lovely driving conditions, but nothing comparable was ever contemplated to deliver similar for the UK. Our road/rail network is still stuck in the early 1950s.

Oblomov23 · 14/06/2023 22:03

I think OP has been given a hard time. Plenty of people earn more than me and the tax and ni is massive!

EffortlessDesmond · 14/06/2023 22:11

Brexit result turned out as it did because a great many tax paying Brits suddenly saw how little was being invested here compared to what was being spent in other countries. If the UK ever went back into the EU, I think we would have a strong case for massive inward investment.

jenandberrys · 14/06/2023 22:13

Truestorypeeps · 14/06/2023 21:28

WHOOSH!

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And this one!

Blossomtoes · 14/06/2023 22:18

Irony detector broken @jenandberrys?

jenandberrys · 14/06/2023 22:27

Blossomtoes · 14/06/2023 22:18

Irony detector broken @jenandberrys?

Not sure they were being ironic.

TheThinkingGoblin · 14/06/2023 22:31

EffortlessDesmond · 14/06/2023 22:11

Brexit result turned out as it did because a great many tax paying Brits suddenly saw how little was being invested here compared to what was being spent in other countries. If the UK ever went back into the EU, I think we would have a strong case for massive inward investment.

The logic of this post is so upside down that I have no words.

Representative Democracy does not work when the natives are this badly informed.

The problems in the UK have alway been domestic.

At a certain point, you will have to stop blaming [insert entity here] for your problems given they are completely self-inflicted.

The only silver lining of Brexit is that there is now one less entity to blame the UKs problems on (amazingly enough people still try).

You have done this to yourselves.

Full stop.

Muddlingthroughthissocalledlife · 14/06/2023 22:36

I don't begrudge you a moan OP.

It is annoying so much tax revenue is mishandled by government.

But try not to dwell on things you can't controll.

Changechangechanging · 14/06/2023 22:51

it seems the benefits brigade

WTF is 'the benefits brigade'?

I mean, it's clear what you mean. I have received benefits as a single parent with a disabled child for the last 15 years or so. I am also a full time teacher. You know exactly where you can shove your brigade, don't you?

Confusedmumannoyedson · 14/06/2023 22:55

GasPanic · 14/06/2023 09:28

Sounds like you are after a handout. Like everyone else.

And therein lies the problem. Too many handouts. Not enough people paying tax.

In the past the government has been able to borrow to make up the shortfall.

Now it can't.

It isn't going to end well.

This.

Lots of us also pay council tax so YABU to state net earnings after deducting that too. Does your net earnings also have your pension contribution deducted before you shared what they are?

Many people really struggle to feed themselves and yet many on above average salaries want/think they need a handout. That type of thinking is a problem. Handouts should really only be for the poorest members or the most vulnerable in society not given en masse.

AscensionToCheese · 14/06/2023 23:01

Confusedmumannoyedson · 14/06/2023 22:55

This.

Lots of us also pay council tax so YABU to state net earnings after deducting that too. Does your net earnings also have your pension contribution deducted before you shared what they are?

Many people really struggle to feed themselves and yet many on above average salaries want/think they need a handout. That type of thinking is a problem. Handouts should really only be for the poorest members or the most vulnerable in society not given en masse.

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Is free, quality education a handout? Free medical care?
Free/subsidised childcare?
Is it a 'public service' or a 'handout' depending on whether it suits your agenda?
It's all very well using emotive language, but people pay taxes to benefit everyone, INCLUDING themselves. Not at their own expense. It's not charity.

Once again for the hard of thinking, high tax countries have great benefits for everyone. Not just 'the poor'.

The problem in the UK is people think higher earners should pay more for 'the poor' but get nothing in return.