To be fed up with the amount of tax / ni I pay

[Elephantstone1]

although my salary looks decent from the outside. I’m beginning to get really fed up with the amount of tax / ni I pay.

so on £60k end up coming out with just around £3k per month from £5k after all taxes (including council tax) have been paid.

we’re not entitled to any help that others may get

my commute costs about £400 a month, but I’ve already paid tax on that money, so i have to earn about £600 a month to pay for it.

i know I’m lucky to be on a decent salary. Just with the col increasing, I’m getting a bit fed up

I work in welfare rights and get sick of hearing people bang on about how easy it is to get shedloads in benefits. Quite apart from benefits being barely enough to live on (unless you're getting PIP), in many regions rents are so high that they take people into benefit cap territory so that they don't actually get the full amount, the processes and bureaucracy are so cumbersome that they're a nightmare to navigate.

While someone on the top rate of tax has a marginal rate of gain of 55% when their income increases, someone working, with earnings just above the tax tthreshold, and getting UC because their rent is unaffordable has a marginal rate of gain of around 32%, because UC claw back 55% of net pay.

Poor people have less of a financial incentive to earn more than rich people do, but they don't moan about it as much.

This. I also resent paying a ton of tax. Because I take out a lot less than others. Mainly because I chose not to have kids.

Purchase tax was replaced by VAT: The rate of Purchase Tax at the start of 1973, when it gave way to VAT, was 25%. On 1 January 1973 the UK joined the European Economic Community and as a consequence Purchase Tax was replaced by Value Added Tax on 1 April 1973.

In France(esp Paris) and Belgium employers pay towards the public transport system - makes sense as they are the ones generating the traffic.

Purchase tax was variable depending on the product. The top rate was 33% on “luxury” items like cars.

I resent selfish people who always bang on about shit like this. If we don't have any kids there won't be anyone to pay taxes at all.

But you get lots from it . That’s what you must remember . Just like you I pay very similar tax to yours , in fact I pay more tax than my partner wages but that’s how much it cost to have a welfare system , healthcare and schools .

Wrong - the poster doesn't get more - in the case you are outlining, everybody does. So, again, the subscription analogy is wrong.

I also love the "I don't take anything out"

NOW

You may not be using schools and the NHS and roads and bins and the fire service and police now

But over your whole life people will on average get back what they put in

And very few people now know if they will be one of the 1 in 3 who will need expensive cancer treatment or the 1 in 10 who will need nursing care at end of life

You're literally both. Cost us a huge amount and also have pensions younger people can only dream of.

You would also be paying more tax & NI as a higher income pensioner.

Thats the point.

Attitudes like yours actually make things worse because you continually ignore that people change their behaviors via economic incentives.

Why work more when you can earn £12k tax free and collect UC while using the NHS, Schools, etc.

I see those posts on here so much.

There are many things you can do to make public services sustainable, but the one thing I am 100% sure about is that taxing higher income earners more will solve absolutely nothing.

Because just like lower income folks, they change their behaviors according to economic inventives. If you raise taxes even more on them, they will work less (so less tax collected), reduce their tax outlay (maxing out pension), or both. End result is that you actually don't collect more in taxes and you make work pay even less (which will come back to bite you later on).

Also, food has no VAT

You are missing the forest from the trees because you assign importance to issues that are quite simply not factual.

2/3 of all income taxes are already paid by the top 10% of income earners.

And you actually want to try to squeeze that even further....

This is why we need experts. To point out how utterly farbot these views of yours are.

Bollocks. It can’t be both. As a net contributor I cost you nothing. Not a penny. If you’ve got children, you’re costing me.

People are over egging just how much people change their behaviour as a direct result of taxation.

Most people are not that short term and selfish in their thinking

I ask again - why would a higher rate tax payer live in Coldstream rather than cornhill if I was just about tax?
Coldstream and cornhill are within walking distance or each other on either side of the Scottish English border.

So was VAT in the early days (various rates). Thatcher increased the main rate from 8% to 15% and Major increased it from 15% to 17.5%.

Then we have 70% of pensioners paying taxAnd we have 73% of the working age population paying tax

The problem does not seem to be pensioners.

Most people don't pay enough tax to be a net contributor though so what the average tax paid by someone in that 70%. Statistically an older person "costs" more than a younger working age person in terms of healthcare.

This is not correct.

Current set of over 60s will only pay in 70% of the benefits they will be receiving.

If you are 20 now, you are basically screwed. You will be paying in 130% of the benefits you "might" be receiving.

Essentially, the working age population of 18 - 64 who pays tax and NI is heavily subsidising the currently retired over 60s (pensions, healthcare, social care etc).

Oh lol....I think you must be thinking of Whitehall mandarins - I paid in for my work and private pensions, and I had to wait an extra 6 years for my state pension. 🙄

Fuck off with this ageist divisive shite

Where are you getting these figures from?

Unfortunately if a land tax was proposed instead of raising money through income tax most of the people on here would go crackers. I certainly would as have paid tax for many years and closer to retirement. A tax in my property at this stage after paying so much tax would be very unfair.

Land tax is fairer though.

As pointed out to you upthread, behavioural change in that situation doesn't require anything as drastic as moving. People can just adjust their income. No need to go to all the faff of buying a house when you can increase your pension contributions or not bother covering the extra shift.

And even assuming it's only a minority of people affected who'd feel that way, the numbers are liable to increase because inflation plus fiscal drag means there'll be more in that position.

To whom?

And harder to avoid. A cynic might think that's why we don't have it...

It works as it's always worked.

Those with kids take a lot out, through various means.

Those that are elderly/disabled take out a lot.

We have always paid into the pot where everyone is supposed to be looked after.

One generation pays for the one above.