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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Eat Out To Help Out: Brilliance or Lunacy?

383 replies

verdantverdure · 13/06/2023 12:06

On the day the Covid Inquiry convenes I thought I'd ask your opinion on Eat Out To Help Out.

Covid case numbers and deaths were low, as we'd done a phased return out of the first lockdown.

Then we had Eat Out To Help Out and it all kicked off again within weeks.

What did you think? At the time? Now?

YABU Eat Out To Help Out was brilliant, I loved it.

YANBU Eat out To Help Out was a bloody stupid idea that was obviously going to help the virus spread, leading to another wave, more economic devastation, and tens of thousands of us dead. And it didn't even help the hospitality industry because it screwed up Christmas which is usually their most profitable quarter.

OP posts:
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Original poster
verdantverdure · 21/10/2023 12:25

More or less takes that view, but it is just one view.

OP posts:
CornishYarg · 21/10/2023 13:34

verdantverdure · 13/06/2023 14:52

Schools had reopened in June 1st though, hadn't they?

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Only to a few year groups and in small distanced class bubbles. It was supposed to be reception, Y1 and Y6 in primary from 1 June; Y2 - 5 weren’t allowed back until Sept. But our primary couldn't get Y6 back in from June properly as there wasn't enough room to accommodate the key worker classes plus the three returning classes.

So very different from the return in September with everyone back and no distancing because of having full classes in each room.

LadyBird1973 · 21/10/2023 14:00

I thought it was great - a lot of places were still eating outside, so social distancing and businesses needed the help.

I'd blame the tories for a lot of our problems but not for this. Rishi Sunak was just trying to help the country's economy recover.

sep135 · 21/10/2023 14:46

Hbh17 · 21/10/2023 12:01

Brilliance. The length and number of lockdowns were patently wrong, as we now know, so anything to help the economy was a good idea.

I agree. Stopped a number of hospitality businesses going into administration. I think it was after vaccinations were available?

We've ended up living with covid as the default setting in any case.

Absolutely45 · 21/10/2023 14:51

LadyBird1973 · 21/10/2023 14:00

I thought it was great - a lot of places were still eating outside, so social distancing and businesses needed the help.

I'd blame the tories for a lot of our problems but not for this. Rishi Sunak was just trying to help the country's economy recover.

Yet the experts, inc the now CMO, said it was lunacy and called Sunak Dr Death because of it.

She was then promoted, so presumably knows what she is talking about or do you know more than her (and other "experts")

Alexandra2001 · 21/10/2023 14:52

sep135 · 21/10/2023 14:46

I agree. Stopped a number of hospitality businesses going into administration. I think it was after vaccinations were available?

We've ended up living with covid as the default setting in any case.

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We ve vaccines now, thats a massive difference.

Appreciate what Sunak was trying to do but he should have asked the medics first, which apparently he didn't.

LadyBird1973 · 21/10/2023 15:01

@Absolutely45 the experts said a lot of things, and weren't always in agreement with each other, let alone the government. In the end everyone was just doing a best guess. Obviously some people's best guess was of more value than others.
But a chancellor was looking at our completely fucked economy and all the restaurants never being able to recover and I think, in this instance, he was trying to do a good thing. With a nice side order of looking popular in a potential leadership race.

At the time I don't remember many people moaning - we had access to the same scientists the government had and we (as a nation) still decided to go out.

tpxqi · 21/10/2023 15:04

No more crazier than lockdowns themselves.

sashagabadon · 21/10/2023 15:12

I don’t recall a massive eotho wave? Eotho was in august and only for sone days and mostly outdoor dining too. There was an another wave but well into October time so long after any eotho transmission ( assuming there was any significant) so more likely schools and general mixing. But schools needed to go back and people needed to mix so it was what it was. We were always going to get waves of transmission but you have to look at these things in the round. And not just take a one sided pov.

sashagabadon · 21/10/2023 15:15

And it’s not just up to “medics” as to what people do. There’s all sorts of things where “medics” might say one thing is better than another but politicians have to look at all reasons and other stakeholders and negative impacts of not doing something. Medics aren’t one voice in any case.

sep135 · 21/10/2023 15:35

With the benefit of hindsight, even if it caused a wave (which is hard to pinpoint to a single cause), is it that different to the post lockdown era?
We still have waves of covid and it's mild for most. If you're vulnerable, you were likely to be taking precautions at that time.

The fraud is inexcusable but I think the scheme had merit, both for the beleaguered hospitality sector but also starting to remove the fear of social interaction. So I'd still support it.

ElleCapitaine · 21/10/2023 15:41

Absolute bullshit - taxpayers paying for the meals of people who could afford to go out and eat anyway, but they refused fund a cheap lunch for kids who really needed it until they were shamed into it by a footballer.

BashfulClam · 21/10/2023 15:48

Handsnotwands · 13/06/2023 13:58

it was also really only of benefit to those who were on furlough. those of us who worked like fucking demons while "looking after" kids all day weren't all that up for dinner out on a weekday

Rubbish, husband and I went out every Thursday after working all day. We worked the whole way through and had no furlough.

Original poster
verdantverdure · 21/10/2023 15:53

ElleCapitaine · 21/10/2023 15:41

Absolute bullshit - taxpayers paying for the meals of people who could afford to go out and eat anyway, but they refused fund a cheap lunch for kids who really needed it until they were shamed into it by a footballer.

I'd forgotten that.

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Original poster
verdantverdure · 21/10/2023 15:57

sep135 · 21/10/2023 15:35

With the benefit of hindsight, even if it caused a wave (which is hard to pinpoint to a single cause), is it that different to the post lockdown era?
We still have waves of covid and it's mild for most. If you're vulnerable, you were likely to be taking precautions at that time.

The fraud is inexcusable but I think the scheme had merit, both for the beleaguered hospitality sector but also starting to remove the fear of social interaction. So I'd still support it.

We have vaccines now.

We didn't then.

That's why nearly 90,000 people died in that second wave.

More than in the first when the government did next to nothing for the first quarter of 2020 except tell us to wash our hands.

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Original poster
verdantverdure · 21/10/2023 16:05

sashagabadon · 21/10/2023 15:12

I don’t recall a massive eotho wave? Eotho was in august and only for sone days and mostly outdoor dining too. There was an another wave but well into October time so long after any eotho transmission ( assuming there was any significant) so more likely schools and general mixing. But schools needed to go back and people needed to mix so it was what it was. We were always going to get waves of transmission but you have to look at these things in the round. And not just take a one sided pov.

It multiplied so much in August that we were well into the second wave by September 4th.

Patrick Vallance and Chris Whitty went on tv on September 21st to say that covid was already doubling every seven days which if it continued could lead to 50,000 cases per day by mid October which would mean 200 unnecessary deaths a day by mid November and we should have a circuit breaker to slow cases down.

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SunnyEgg · 21/10/2023 16:08

More or Less people

Sir David Spiegelhalter covers it. It’s hardly any change, a few days earlier

Lifeinlists · 21/10/2023 16:16

Someone on Times Radio this morning said that it didn't really make much material difference to cases. Just didn't look very good later.

LadyBird1973 · 21/10/2023 16:33

I do absolutely agree though, that funding this but not funding school meals was unforgivable

DogInATent · 21/10/2023 16:46

What's come out of the inquiry is that the motivations behind Eat Out To Help Out and other normalizing schemes are definitely suspect. Businesses that heavily supported the Conservatives (Telegraph Group, Daily Mail Group, etc) were suffering badly as they needed commuters buying papers. The government could afford furlough as long as it helped keep the NHS on its feet, but the Party couldn't afford to have their backers going broke. This was discussed within the WhatsApp groups.

These same businesses (plus Pret, Lord Sugar, etc.) are the ones that have pushed for the complete return to pre-Covid normal. A complete end to WFH, despite the significant benefits many employers and employees have seen from this.

When you look at how much spending the government negligently wasted on dodgy PPE contracts, misspent on Test and Trace and the Nightingale hospitals, then it's clear that there was the financial capacity to support the hospitality industry further without EOTHO - at least not to the extent it was rolled out.

Original poster
verdantverdure · 21/10/2023 17:09

Precisely @DogInATent

Although it's no wonder people aren't aware.

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Original poster
verdantverdure · 21/10/2023 17:14

Lifeinlists · 21/10/2023 16:16

Someone on Times Radio this morning said that it didn't really make much material difference to cases. Just didn't look very good later.

Lots of people say a lot of things, but there's not much basis for that one that I can think of.

Numbers went from the lowest they'd been in six months to "whoops we're in danger of lockdown if we don't have a circuit breaker" in a matter of weeks.

Then the disruption continued for the next four or five months.

Killing more than in the first wave and setting our economy's pandemic recovery back another year at least.

OP posts:
SunnyEgg · 21/10/2023 17:16

verdantverdure · 21/10/2023 17:14

Lots of people say a lot of things, but there's not much basis for that one that I can think of.

Numbers went from the lowest they'd been in six months to "whoops we're in danger of lockdown if we don't have a circuit breaker" in a matter of weeks.

Then the disruption continued for the next four or five months.

Killing more than in the first wave and setting our economy's pandemic recovery back another year at least.

Show quote history

Statisticians say them too…

The people who know numbers are the ones to look to. You can try to listen to them rather than ignore any contrary views to yours.

You need to be open to what an informed person is saying rather than closed off

JamMakingWannaBe · 21/10/2023 17:17

I was on holiday at the time so we ate out for lunch and dinner that week very cheaply.

Absolutely45 · 21/10/2023 18:29

LadyBird1973 · 21/10/2023 15:01

@Absolutely45 the experts said a lot of things, and weren't always in agreement with each other, let alone the government. In the end everyone was just doing a best guess. Obviously some people's best guess was of more value than others.
But a chancellor was looking at our completely fucked economy and all the restaurants never being able to recover and I think, in this instance, he was trying to do a good thing. With a nice side order of looking popular in a potential leadership race.

At the time I don't remember many people moaning - we had access to the same scientists the government had and we (as a nation) still decided to go out.

No we didn't, you d never heard of the deputy CMO i bet? nor knew any than one or two in SAGE, just the TV ones.

Help out etc was a fucking disaster, it made zero difference to long term sustainability of pubs and restaurants but did cost billions and helped mess up the NHS.