To think that in years to come there will be studies into the social isolation caused by working from home?

[MySugarBabyLove]

I think that on many levels working from home is beneficial, so I’m not looking at slating the existence of WFH.

But I do believe that in years to come we will start to look at the social isolation that wfh has led to.

It’s already known that people who don’t work, be that because they’re home with the kids, or because they have disabilities are more socially isolated, purely because they just don’t get the same opportunities to speak to people as people do when they’re at work. In fact there have been many threads on here over the years from SAHMs who say they feel lonely and isolated, and the suggestion has been that they should go back to work.

Let’s face it, most of our interactions happen at work, and even if we don’t end up with lasting friendships, we do end up with regular opportunities to interact with people.

And now many people are working from home. And while there are many other benefits, the work/life balance, the ability to go to work without a commute, and be home at a decent hour etc, but I do think that the lack of interaction that WFH has led to should be acknowledged.

I work entirely from home. It works for me because I have a disability as well as another health condition, so while a commute would have been possible, not having to do so does benefit me.

And yet I feel more isolated now than before I started this job. Because although I work with people, a quick chat on teams isn’t a substitute for being able to have a laugh in the office, pass people going in and out, seeing someone at the coffee point.

My job started as WFH, I’ve been there since last July, and I have never and likely will never meet any of my colleagues in person.

And the longer I do it, the more I realise how different it is to when I used to work in an office.

I don’t miss the office politics, but I do think that WFH will possibly have a negative impact on people’s social abilities and their sense of belonging and isolation, and that this is something there will be studies on in the future.

This really resonated with me and wasn't something I was able to articulate until I saw this post. I'm in full agreement. I felt exactly the same. Now I wfh I have that social energy to spend on the people I care about.

No, I have more time and energy for socialising now. I've actually quit jobs before because the working environment had bullies etc so wfh works wonders for me. I'm far less anxious or lonely.

Bingo, this sums it up better than I did.

TBF, they're not the only one. Multiple posts in this thread from people who were young in the workplace some time ago, but feel bad for those who are there now because they wouldn't have liked it. Own personal experience as default.

I think wfh is awful for recent grads and younger folks.

I used to think this, until I spoke to so many of them. Overwhelmingly, they like it as much as us older folk do.

I think you make some interesting points, OP but I've noticed that if anyone posts anything negative about WFH on MN the responses are frequently defensive, sometimes to the point of being angry.

I have a couple of friends who are really worried about the impact permanent WFH has had on their partners. One says she practically has to force her DP to leave the house now and describes him as a "hermit". The other says the same, but is also frustrated because her DP has stopped making any effort with his appearance and his hygiene has gotten a bit lax since he isn't really seeing anyone.

I can see how some people would feel more inclined to be social when WFH due to having more time and not being too 'peopled out' by the end of their working day. But others may find that they get out of the habit of meeting people face to face, or lose confidence, and that the more time they spend at home the more reluctant they are to go out. Clearly there's no one size fits all approach and people need to seek out arrangements that work for them.

Luckily now a person can decide if working from home will work for them or not, and apply/not apply for jobs based on their preference

It’s really not that simple. When I was applying for jobs most of them did not have regular days when the team was in. They had pretty much moved to almost entirely working from home. Only one had a requirement for the team to be in on two days a week.

You are also assuming people can get the jobs they want. Not everyone is so fortunate to be able to pick and choose. And the stats are really clear that as people age it’s a lot harder for them to be able to get or move jobs.

That is interesting - we've found the opposite in that the juniors we recruited shortly before lockdown are all under performing. The evidence suggests it's the lack of office time with Senior Managers - essentially the juniors have no/limited role modelled behaviour to observe. There's also a chronic lack of team spirit due to lack of fun/banter/chat/the occasional office lunch out etc.

I find this ironic because, having have 2 stints on maternity leave, I found the concept that I'd get on with other parents I met at baby groups odd - largely the only thing we had in common was having kids of similar ages. Same with neighbours - all we have in common is a little patch of shared geography. Whereas, with work colleagues, you are likely to have a similar skill set, career path and possibly even interests (having chosen the same career), so you've more in common and are more likely to get on with each other.

It certainly reduces the opportunity for office romances!

Massively depends on the industry. It has been pretty difficult for those that work on an apprentice type model, acquiring the skills without more senior people around takes much longer

In some industries, if senior people want juniors to learn then they need to sacrifice some of the advantages of wfh and be around to be learnt from.

in that scenario hybrid working, with a reasonable time in the office, works best for everyone

I loved the social side of the office when I was in my twenties but thinking about it, the pub-after-work-on-a-Friday thing isn’t terribly inclusive.

I like that WFH maybe encourages diversity in the workplace - we’ll soon see if that’s true. It’s also good for the sandwich generation which is juggling ageing parents and minor kids at the same time, because the absence of a commute and the possibility of - cliche alert - putting on a load of washing at lunch time, must be very helpful. And let’s face it, the bulk of this pressure falls on women.

What strikes me about this is the politicisation of the attitudes to this and the polarisation.

The Wall Street Journal and the Daily Mail and other right wing rags have been writing for months about how wfh is unpicking the moral fabric of society.

There are certainly some drawbacks associated with wfh and some negative impacts.

Bur a lot of people find it life changingly liberating. It has enabled many of us to work flexibilbly, allowed us to consider out children’s needs and to save a lot of money.

I can’t help thinking quite a lot of the objections to it are pretty misogynistic and nonsensical. I think when it come down to brass tacks a lot of it is people objecting to the fact women no longer have to fit their work schedule around arbitrary structures dictated by the needs of men.

I've been wfh since long before the pandemic. In fact due to my disabilities it's the only way I can work.

Instead of taking to no one today I spoke to 7 different people. I feel less isolated not more.

And despite people (not young grads) saying its bad for grads, our grads are thriving. We keep asking if they want more time in the office and more people from the team present in the office and they don't. Because this way they have more time to socialise with their actual friends. And honestly their work is amazing.

I can’t help thinking quite a lot of the objections to it are pretty misogynistic and nonsensical. I think when it come down to brass tacks a lot of it is people objecting to the fact women no longer have to fit their work schedule around arbitrary structures dictated by the needs of men.

I totally agree with this

I completely agree

The trouble is that it also facilitates the control of women by men.

My ex would have loved me wfh as I'd have been under his supervision 24/7. He'd have hated the fact that I would have emails and messages from men and would have hovered around or constantly interrupted during virtual meetings. I tried taking a short study course with online lectures, just one a month, and he didn't leave me alone for more than five minutes without coming in and seeking attention/checking up on me (and then the 'So, what men are on the course?' 'Are you emailing a man?' 'Next time you're doing it, I want to sit in and see who you're talking to and get to know them' type of shit for the next four weeks).

At least with in person courses, office based work and hybrid working, there would be the opportunity to interact with other people who weren't crazy coercive shits - and there would be a blissful hour or so travelling, which is also good exercise.

In short, if there's a way for men to control women, they will find it, whether it's through 'dictating women's work schedule' outside the home or monitoring it inside the home.

@Q2C4 those underperformers aren’t necessarily socially isolated though, it’s workplace skills that they are lacking, which is a different issue. There absolutely needs to be a way to make sure those new to the workplace are equipped to handle whatever their career might throw at them, but I am always amused when the solution seems to be “put everyone in the office more”. For better or for worse, the way we work is changing, so the way we upskill people has to as well. It’s no good teaching people how to thrive in an office full-time if there’s a low likelihood of that being the norm!

@theswoot I think employers are now realising the damage that WFH is doing to the skills of its workforce and are taking steps to reverse it.

The juniors I work with are often renting a room in shared accommodation so are working & sleeping 24/7 in the same room. Some are describing this as akin to being in prison. No wonder they are lacking in motivation.

The people who I find are more comfortable WFH are the senior managers with longer commutes who have nice leafy pads with large gardens etc.

Oh god, this x1000. If you don’t want to wfh, don’t do it. Hundreds and hundreds of posters have explained hundreds of times over why it works for them, and you still bore on fretting about it. It’s infuriating.

I agree that it’s absolutely not necessary to have everyone in full time, but I also notice that where I work the senior people who complain most about new grads’ lack of skills are the ones who are never in the office to give the grads the opportunity to learn from them.

Having a similar career path hardly means you're more likely to get on with someone!

Really, the issue is generalisations. You're right that there's no reason why having one particular thing in common with someone means you're going to get on, be that the choice to have a baby or where you live. But that principle is also applicable to work. It just doesn't follow that because two people do their wage labour for the same organisation, they've anything substantial in common or like each other.

And that goes for a lot of the discussion about wfh in general. There's pretty much nothing that applies across the board. It's not better or worse for young people, for productivity, for promotion, for anything at all really. The answer is always, it depends.

@Tinybrother truth!

My young son loves WFH, He is 21, He already has a good circle of close friends, plus his girlfriend. He has previously work in offices and a bank, customers drove him mad, much prefers WFH. l think a lot of it depends on your personality, some people are just not very good at being alone, they need other people around them constantly, where as others like myself much prefer their own company.