Settle a lighthearted debate!

[Sparklfairy]

I went to the beach with my friend yesterday. As we walked back we got into a strange lighthearted debate about the pronunciation of certain words. He has a weird thing that really annoys him about Americanisms coming over to the UK. We're both British and grew up in the same SE town, so roughly have the same accent.

He insisted that 'patriotic' is 'correctly' pronounced 'pat-riotic' not 'pay-triotic' like I would naturally say. See also all other versions of the word, patriot, patriotism etc.

When I tried to argue it's acceptable both ways, he insisted no, 'pay' is an Americanism.

He had a bunch of other words as well, including Lieutenant and Jaegermeister, but I can let those go. I'm sure I'm right with this one!

Mumsnet can be extra cantankerous on Monday mornings so I'm just gonna clarify again, this was all lighthearted, and yes, there's bigger problems in the world, and no, this doesn't really warrant a thread but it's annoying me - so how do you say patriot?

I would say pat triotic and think paytriotic is definitely American.

Yep, pat triotic.

I say pat not pay

I’m with him on this one.
However, I do say prIvacy which used to be the only acceptable pronunciation.
Very often the American pronunciation predates the English one.

I'm with him! You are wrong! What is your view about lieutenant?

I’m with you, OP, I’ve always said pay-triotic.

Does that mean people also say PAT-triarchy and PAT-triotism? Just sounds weird.

Anyway, if both usages are correct, then not sure why it’s such a big deal to him.

He put me on the spot, but basically I babbled about civilians saying Lieuooo-tenant and armed forces saying Left-enant

Basically I was saying he was being pretentious saying left-enant as by this point I was on the back foot I know I'm wrong with that one

@Coolhwip that's kind of my thinking. People definitely say 'pay-triarchy- so what's the difference?

So now anyone that hears me say 'pay-triot(ism/ic) thinks I'm thick?

I really thought both were accepted

I've only ever said pay-triotic like you op, and have honestly never heard it pronounced any other way.

Good point on pay triarchy ,would sound a bit odd as pat triarchy. I struggle to say Mall as in MAL as am now too indoctrinated after so much teen us tv and say mawl. Probably many examples like this that are slowly changing as language does.

He is correct!

Nah i’m with you always thought it’s pronounced ‘pay’ interested to here the Jaegermeister one…. Surely it’s ‘yay-ger-meister’?

He's right I'm afraid

Hmm

I say pay-triot (ie Patriot Games)

Pay-triarchy

But pat-riotic.

Years of listening learner readers leads me to believe that the clue is in the concept of the magic e.

As a general rule, in British english when a vowel is followed by a consonent, then a vowel, the first vowel says its name - eg. rake, rife
When a vowel is followed by two consonets, then the first vowel says its sound - eg rack, rift.

As the a in patriotic is followed by a t and an r then the a says its sound, therefore pat-riotic.

If the final letter is a consonent then the preceding vowel says its sound, too, eg rat, writ.

But, english being english, there are plenty of exceptions.

I'm with him, and I say pat-riarchy and pat-riotism too!

I say pay-riotic. I’m British. DH says pat-riotic. He’s American.

I say pat- riotic and pat - riarchy. And ex- pat!

I don’t think you’re wrong, in my SE accent I say “pay-triot” (pat-triot sounds wrong to me) and “leff-tennant” (loo-tennant is American!)

Try patronise (as in talk down to someone. Ie "did you mean to be so rude?") VS patronise (as in you are a customer of a shop ie "I regularly patronise this shop"). The two always make my tongue stumble

I'm with him, sorry OP.

They are exactly the same. What’s your issue?

Pat-riot
pat-riotic
can live with pay-triot
pay-triarchy

lef- tennant

yay-ger-my-ster

I say pat-riotic

But I say pay-triotism and pay-triot

It's definitely leff-tennant and yay-ger-my-ster though

Patriotic and paytriotic can be used interchangeably.
It should always be leftenant in the UK.
I can’t even imagine what another pronunciation for Jaegermeister would be?