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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Student Finance England

39 replies

yphtutor · 09/06/2023 10:53

My son has a bio-med degree and a masters in clinical neuroscience. (I am only saying this to add context as it is relevant) However, all he has ever wanted to do is medicine. Anyone who has ever tried to apply for medicine knows how difficult it is to even get an interview at a university. He has got to interview stage several times but has then been knocked back and has to re apply the next year and the next and the next and pay for GAMSAT, UCAT or BMAT, or all 3 depending upon where you are applying and if you are applying as a grad or undergrad. Unlike other degrees in medicine you can only apply to 4 uni’s!
This year he was invited for 3 interviews and was accepted at the uni of his choice.
Absolutely delighted after years of knock backs. He then applied for student finance to be told in one letter he will not be funded for the course but will get a maintenance loan, in another letter he will not be funded for the course but will get a maintenance loan (this one twice as much as the first) and a further letter telling him he will not receive anything!
He is devastated as are we. We can manage to pay the tuition fees with a struggle and a lot of sacrifices if he gets a maintenance loan, but if he gets nothing I’m not sure we could afford it.
I am flabbergasted that with the shortage of doctors in the NHS medicine is not a fully funded course and I am absolutely fuming that the SFE are so incompetent they can’t even clarify the situation for him and for us.
AIBU to think all medicine degrees should be fully funded no question, particularly in light of the fact that Scotland and Wales only pay a tiny fraction of what we pay here in England?
If anyone has any suggestions who I can lobby I would be grateful. I have sent emails already to the PMs office and to Gillian Keegan MP

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Floppyelf · 09/06/2023 10:56

Tell him to look at english courses which are state funded in Europe- germany in particular. He has already maxed out his student loan allowance. That’s not the worlds fault. Failing that tell him to look at medical apprenticeships. Same thing but zero tuition fees…

Leftlegwest · 09/06/2023 10:56

My husband did a first degree in something at 18 then realised 10 years' later with like ex prince that his skills lay elsewhere. But as he had done the first (3 year) degree, he would only be able to get funding for the fourth year of the new course. Disappointing and again, it was an area where there are massive shortages.

i hope your son manages to sort it.

Original poster
yphtutor · 09/06/2023 13:01

I’m not blaming anyone my point is medical degrees should be funded we have a severe shortage of doctors in this country

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Original poster
yphtutor · 09/06/2023 13:02

Thank you

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BaconMassive · 09/06/2023 13:03

We have a shortage of doctors but not a shortage of people completing medical degrees, problem is the recruitment and retention rates are so poor that a lot of the trained staff go and earn a better living elsewhere.

SlipSlidinAway · 09/06/2023 13:10

BaconMassive · 09/06/2023 13:03

We have a shortage of doctors but not a shortage of people completing medical degrees, problem is the recruitment and retention rates are so poor that a lot of the trained staff go and earn a better living elsewhere.

I agree. Chatting to my GP recently and he said he'd been offered a huge salary and relocation package to work abroad. A friend of my dc's is a junior dr who has £80k student debt, is paid a pittance and is expected to work ludicrous hours. He's looking for a career outside of medicine.

I wouldn't object to med students having free/subsidised training. But they would have to agree to practice medicine in the UK for X years after qualifying.

Sissynova · 09/06/2023 13:14

yphtutor · 09/06/2023 13:01

I’m not blaming anyone my point is medical degrees should be funded we have a severe shortage of doctors in this country

But there’s no shortage of people applying for a med degree. It’s oversubscribed which is why the criteria is so high.

titchy · 09/06/2023 13:19

He will get maintenance but not fees, although I think his clinical year(s) will be fee loan eligible. I have to say though, did he not look into this before applying?

And why did he do the Masters as well? (Not that the masters loan has any bearing on his eligibility for medicine finance.)

And it's not that these courses aren't eligible for funding, they are, it's that he's already had several years of funding - he's luck he'll get maintenance. Most other students wanting to do another degree won't get anything.

Cardio101 · 09/06/2023 13:26

I’m a medical student with a first degree in another subject.
Unfortunately it’s well known that having a previous degree means you’re not eligible in most cases, for additional tuition fees from SFE.
As much as I disagree with it though, medicine is hugely competitive and there is no shortage of applicants.

There are several scholarships around that your son can apply for (some through his uni as well), and some are fully funded tuition fees.

Wenfy · 09/06/2023 13:26

It seems like he’s just faffing around to avoid work. I would always question the commitment of a biomed student ‘who has always wanted to study medicine’ if they didn’t switch either during their degree or just afterwards.

Is he just attracted by the prospect of earning 6 and 7 figure salaries? Because advances in medical technology (particularly AI) is going to make medicine look very different as a career option in 10 years when/if he becomes a consultant.

KateyCuckoo · 09/06/2023 13:35

Sounds like he needs to crack on and get a job. Lots of taking from the pot so far!

Lcb123 · 09/06/2023 13:37

No, medical degrees should definitely not be funded because there’s no guarantee they’ll work in the UK let alone the NHS. But if they do work for the NHS, the NHS should pay their student finance repayments for them. And sorry but he needs to get a job

Original poster
yphtutor · 09/06/2023 14:16

Totally agree

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Original poster
yphtutor · 09/06/2023 14:18

At the moment he is not getting anything. He did the masters because he didn’t get into medicine that year. Let’s not forget the word loan here. They aren’t giving him anything he has to pay it back and will

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Original poster
yphtutor · 09/06/2023 14:19

He has got a job he worked in the Covid lab through Covid and the histology lab and is currently a HCA in theatre and recovery

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Original poster
yphtutor · 09/06/2023 14:20

Don’t judge!

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vivainsomnia · 09/06/2023 14:22

I’m not blaming anyone my point is medical degrees should be funded we have a severe shortage of doctors in this country
There's no shortage of people applying so I don't see why they should pay for all medical students.

Your son had the option not to do a degree and Masters before.

I'd rather see funding going to Junior doctors, much more deserving.

titchy · 09/06/2023 14:22

yphtutor · 09/06/2023 14:18

At the moment he is not getting anything. He did the masters because he didn’t get into medicine that year. Let’s not forget the word loan here. They aren’t giving him anything he has to pay it back and will

That's not really a reason though is it? That's a way of avoiding work. It would have benefitted him far more to work as a HCA or similar than do the Masters. It does look a bit like he just wants to be a student forever.

Regardless, he now has an offer which is great, and should get a maintenance loan which he can use for his fees.

HouseNewbie · 09/06/2023 14:26

Actually if all he had was the undergraduate then he would be eligible to receive funding (a loan) for a healthcare degree.

LorraineInSpain · 09/06/2023 14:27

I’d have thought he should get a tuition fee loan even though it’s not his first degree - it’s on this list, so it would be worth querying with SFE. I’m getting funding for a STEM degree even though I’ve already got a different degree.

https://www.gov.uk/student-finance/who-qualifies

If you already have a degree

You may be eligible for limited funding in certain circumstances.
You may get limited funding if you’re ‘topping up’ a higher education qualification, for example you’ve finished an HNC, HND or Foundation Degree and now want to do an Honours degree.
You may also get limited funding if you hold an Honours degree or a higher level of qualification and start a new course. This could be a part-time Honours degree, a joint Honours degree or an Integrated Master’s degree in one of the following (or 2 if it’s a joint Honours degree):

  • agriculture and related subjects
  • architecture (if it’s a MArch RIBA Part 2 course)
  • biological sciences
  • computer science
  • mathematical sciences
  • medicine and allied subjects
  • physical sciences
  • technologies
  • courses leading to qualification as a veterinary surgeon
You could also be eligible if you’re starting a healthcare course on or after 1 August 2017.
Original poster
yphtutor · 09/06/2023 14:33

That is really useful thank you

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RoseBucket · 09/06/2023 14:38

@yphtutor has he paid off his last loans? If you join the Facebook group, what I wish I knew about Uni. They are a good source of info including students who study abroad, Greece offers a good affordable option and graduates go on to practice in the UK.

Original poster
yphtutor · 09/06/2023 14:40

Thank you Rosebucket a constructive helpful answer appreciate it

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JudgeRudy · 09/06/2023 14:47

I'd have expected Medicical Degrees to be state funded just as I would nursing of teaching training etc. I don't necessarily think you should get a maintenance grant though.
What does surprise me is that after 3 years of pursuing a career your son hadn't seriously considered how it would be funded. I'd have expected a trainee doctor to have looked knto this properly.

Original poster
yphtutor · 09/06/2023 14:54

He has contacted SFE many times and has been given conflicting advice as have we. The last time he contacted them he was told medicine is an ‘exceptional’ degree course and as such he would receive full funding. That person told him to apply asap which he did and he now has the 3 letters which came on the same day all saying different things. We just need clarity as to what he will or will not receive, but SFE are clearly incompetent or just haven’t got a
clue. Either way it’s extremely frustrating.

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