To want to know where my teenager is?

[CheerfulYank]

My oldest is 15, 16 next month.

We’re American so our school system is different (as well as the drinking age etc). He’s just finished 9th grade so he still has 10th, 11th and 12th of high school and to live at home etc (just putting that in because sometimes it feels like with your school system 16 year olds are “older” over there if that makes sense?)

Anyway I’ve tried to not be too strict with him on a lot of things because my parents were extremely strict and I was often in bad situation which I just lied about (ah, the 90s 😬)

Our main rules for him at this age have been you don’t treat anyone like shit and you don’t lie to us. He’s been to parties a few times this year and been drinking, and I haven’t lost the plot because he was honest with me. I told him my main concerns in those instances are that he’s safe and so is everyone around him, which they have been. Some parent friends of mine have told me this is too lenient but I said I thought I could trust him.

Around 12:30 this morning he asked if he could go to his friend’s house. Normally I would have said no since it was so late, but this friend often stays at his father’s farm until late working and then comes back into town to stay at his mom’s a few blocks from us. I said okay but he had to be back at 10 am. DS said fine and left when I was in the shower.

Before I went to sleep I messaged him asking him what he was up to and he said just playing XBox with his friend but they were tired and going to sleep. I said ok. His life360 location showed him as being at his friend’s. On a whim I messaged the friend’s mom and asked if DS was there, but as it was quite late I didn’t expect a reply.

I went to sleep and woke up for some reason around 5 am, and got a message back from the friend’s mom saying DS was not there and had never been, and neither had her son (he’d stayed over at the farm). She called the farm and her ex confirmed that their son had been there all night and never left and my DS had never been there. Her DS finally broke and said that mine was in a township I’d never heard of about a 45 minute drive away.

His friends must have been frantically trying to get ahold of him because DS messaged me then saying that he had just wanted to go to this kid’s house to look at his dirt bike but knew I wouldn’t let him so he had lied.

I told him to get home immediately and give me his phone, which he did.

I’m livid because he lied when he left, he lied by somehow rigging his life360 to say he was somewhere he wasn’t, and he lied again when I messaged him to double check. I have no idea where he actually was or what he was doing. I told him to open up his Snapchat so I could see what he’d been up to and he refuses.

What do I do with him? Just realize there’s nothing I can do and let him do whatever the hell he wants? Crack down and refuse to let him step foot outside until school starts in September?

It’s so difficult because we live in a rural area and it’s America so every teenage boy over 16 is driving and a good portion of them have access to alcohol and guns. I’m trying to get him to understand that shit happens all the time when people are drinking or even just messing around. Accidents happen. And if I don’t even know where he IS, I have no way to figure out if he’s safe or needs help or whatever.

There have also been tons of incidents at his school with kids sexting each other and nudes being passed around and all kinds of things…videos of teen girls doing sexual things at parties, stuff like that. I’ve talked to him about all of those things (and how I will come down on him like the wrath of God if I ever catch him sharing anything like that or treating girls/women like that) And whenever this stuff happens, everyone is like “where are their parents? Why weren’t they looking at what was on their phones?” Etc. But if parents are strict and look through their social media, things like that, it’s “they’re too strict, their kids are just going to rebel”.

So where is the happy medium?

I know this is unforgivably long, I just don’t want to leave anything out that might explain something.

So he went out after midnight, you have no idea where he was / who he was with and he lied about it?

I would be livid. And stopping money / data etc until I had some answers.

That's quite a line he's crossed there. You're already giving him a fair amount of leeway but he's betrayed your trust massively. Staying out all night at that age where there's drugs, alcohol and guns is not without risk and he needs to know that there's consequences to his actions. He'd be grounded, and privileges taken away if it was me. I'd use it as an opportunity to educate him about trust and consequences.

Yup. That’s about the size of it. And livid would probably be an understatement.

I’d be furious about that. Tricky to compare (we’re in London so quite a different environment) but DD15 wouldn’t be allowed out at that time and I’d hit the roof if she lied about where she was.

I think you would be reasonable to respond very strongly to this and he would have to earn back my trust. Appreciate it’s harder if it’s the norm there for kids to be driving, drinking etc. You’re the mum, you can set the rules.

I'm not sure of the answer but going out after midnight for an under 16 is very late. I might pick up at a party for my 16 yr old but the night wouldn't start at that time of night. You should have said no.

It would be good to establish some basic ground rules about where he is and when. I would be removing privileges that I pay for like access to cars and lifts, and phones as a consequence.

I would also make some more enquiries about where he was and who he was with. Do you think he's telling the truth now?

Maybe see if he could get some hobbies or a job so he had a bit less free time?

He has done this before and actually gone to this friend’s, they do often just play Xbox for a bit and go to sleep.

He does have a job and plays several sports.

It’s weird because it’s not really the NORM, and yet it is. Kids do it all the time and then everyone acts shocked when there’s an accident or something. I thought by being honest and direct about it, I would get the jump on it.

There's no way I'd let my 15yo go out at midnight and if she went to a sleepover I'd check with the parents first.

I think you've given him too much freedom and it's back fired tbh.

I'd be more angry with myself for being too trusting, teens are not trustworthy ime, even the good ones lie if they think they'll get away with it.

I’d be very much ‘Oh dear, I can’t trust you now, which means for the next (however long) you can’t go anywhere unless I drop you and pick you up, and if I’m busy then you have to work to my times.’ Similarly I would swap the smart phone for a crap one for a few days as he can’t be trusted with a nice phone.

Oh I’m plenty angry with myself, don’t worry.

He and three other boys in town have been good friends for years and it’s not uncommon for them to go to late baseball games or other things and then crash at one of their houses. Clearly he can’t be trusted to do that anymore.

Ok. First rule is if I can't get into the phone it's gone. I almost never look but if I ask it's mine. My fingerprint or Face ID is on everything as long as I'm paying for it.

Lying - they need to earn back the trust and that's going to painful and slow. So what's his suggestion for earning it back? Make it his problem to solve.

Does he understand what a fucking idiot he's been?

Apparently not! That’s what gets me. I tried to get him to understand how if something happened, I wouldn’t have had any idea of where to start LOOKING. He says “well nothing would have happened!” to which I said clearly he isn’t mature enough to be given the amount of freedom that he’s had.

YANBU I would not be happy in your shoes.

OP, you’re not going to like this answer…but here goes.

A.. I would raise holy hell about the lying.

B.. if he’s already doing this (and it is actually very normal) then you need to figure out what your rules are going to be knowing this is the reality.

That means you either trust him and put some boundaries in place that work for you both or you’re going to have a kid that lies to you.

As an example, I didn’t have a curfew as a teen. I had to call at midnight and 2am if I wasn’t home. I told my mum where I was and that I was ok. I then had to wake her up when I got home. Very rarely did I make the 2 am call as most of my friends had an earlier curfew. But When I did she knew I was alive and I had no problems following her rules. Mine was the house where my friends said they were staying over when they had other plans. She would cover for them. They also had to follow her her rules, which included a phone number to reach them (pre mobile days).

A lot of people won’t agree with my mum’s approach and that’s fine…it’s your kid, you get to make the rules. But my mum knew a hell of a lot more of what was going on then my friend’s parents with strict parents. I also, as a stupid kid , knew that I really didn’t have to hide anything from her so there was a lot more openness on my part.

Ok not to laugh…but this was my mum’s reasoning behind the no curfew and the calling and telling her where I was. She always said that if something happened she needed a place to start looking for me.

Again she this was pre cellphone days, so I would literally call her from a party with 200 stupid kids and say “hey, I’m alive, at a party at X’s place” and she’d say “ok call me or wake me up when you get home”.

I'm in the US, my sons are now in their 30s, so no 'tracking' apps when they were teens, but they did have cell phones. And we lived rural, too. Still do lol. Both my sons had cars at 16, in the country it's pretty much a must. I was fairly liberal as far as them going places, but the rule was that they were to text me beforehand if they went someplace other than where they told me they'd be. And if it was to someone's house I didn't know, they needed to call me, not text.

Bottom line is, he lied. It doesn't matter what he lied about or how trustworthy he was before this, he lied. That was always the #1 with me, if you lie I will land on you like a duck on a June bug! Going somewhere I didn't know to the house of some kid I didn't know? My sons would be grounded at least a week for that alone. And lying about it? Add another week! And seriously? Looking at a dirt bike in the middle of the night? I don't believe it for a minute. Dollars to donuts he was at a party.

As far as what the happy medium is, that's very much an individual thing. Some kids are as trustworthy as can be, others you can't let out of your sight. You need to speak with your son and tell him that this escapade as severely 'cracked' the trust you felt in him. Because of that his freedom is going to be curtailed until he can prove he's learnt his lesson and can be trustworthy. No more midnight excursions, no parties, locations services on at all times* and start with an 11 pm curfew. And he is to call you whenever he changes locations and give you an address. Once he can be relied on to do all this, then start loosening the reins. And as far as the 'nothing will happen' bullshit....if you can't make him understand that 'shit happens', then perhaps he'll understand 'shit will rain down on your head if this happens again'.

But being an American mom, I don't approve of giving permission to attend parties where there will be alcohol served to minor. Yes, I know they're going to try alcohol, but at least they know I disapprove of it. And if they come home drunk /high there will be consequences. And I always told my sons NEVER get into a vehicle with an impaired driver or if they were impaired themselves. They were to call us and we would get them anyplace, any time no questions asked. Oh, we'll talk about it the next day, but not right then.

*make him show you how he hacked that life360 to give a false location. I wonder if he just left his phone at his friend's house so it would show he was there.

I thought that this was basically what I had done, honestly. I made him call me a few times to let me know he was alive or send pictures/video call if I knew he was at a party so we could go over the rules about not getting in a car with anyone, calling if anyone appeared really ill, etc.

But I told him I had lived a lot longer and been in situations he couldn’t (and wouldn’t want to) imagine, so if I tell him no about anything or that there is a vibe I don’t like, he needs to respect that and trust me and come home.

I thought we had an understanding but now any trust is shattered.

All the best op

Then proceed I would back to “A”. I think he probably needs a reminder what the alternative to your trust looks like.

He’s not too old to learn that lesson. I’m assuming being without a car and with restrictions on getting into cars with others for awhile will be a bummer for awhile with school being out. And golly gee all that spare time he’ll have I’m sure there are some thankless jobs that need to be done. (I seem to remember my sister having to pull dandelions and other weeds out of the yard by hand on at least a couple of times. On a different occasion, I myself got really good at scrubbing the floor and the woodwork one summer. Of course this was after the “come to Jesus” that my mum had with us).

I wouldn’t view it as shattered trust though… I’d view it more as a boundary that got pushed and that you need to reinforce.

(I never liked the premise of broken trust. I always found that to be an impossible thing to have a hope of repairing without trust being there…but that’s just me)

I have a son around the same age. I have to say I wouldn’t allow him to go out at midnight and I don’t think any of his friends would be allowed to either. We live in a large city, but I grew up in a rural area and we didn’t go out at that hour at 15 either.

I think I would opt for natural consequences. He broke your trust so he has to sleep at home for however long you decide. It’s not easy once they’ve been used to freedom to dial it back but it really sounds like he just takes it for granted that he can do what he wants.

It’s interesting that you think teenagers seem older in the uk as the going out at midnight/having access to cars etc makes it seem the opposite.

There's a lot there but I'd focus on the lying, my two know everything is worse if I find out they lied about it! I'd ground him for whatever period focused on the lying. Then he needs to build up trust from there, so earlier curfew, photo/videos of where he is when he checks in. Explicitly remind him he has to build trust back like he did when he first got independence and any wrong step he goes back to zero. I used the analogy of snakes and ladders with my DS and it resonated.

I think it’s just that the age of majority is 18 here and drinking age is 21, versus 16/18 there. :)

There is zero public transportation here so cars are kind of a necessity. I don’t drive personally and it’s very difficult, plus I’m looked at like I have three heads when I admit that to people!

I’m not sure if the going out after midnight thing is usual here either, I’ve just allowed it occasionally based on his friend’s farming schedule.

I think there is a great difference in UK vs US thinking when it comes to older teens, especially regarding drinking and 'clubbing'/partying. Not saying either country is right or wrong, it just 'is'.

Same thing goes for cars. Other than certain large urban cities, public transport is shit, even in towns and smaller cities. A friend lives in a city of 40K, yet to use public transport you're dealing with multiple changes, roundabout routes, and multiple stops. Once she wanted to use a bus after dropping off her car for repair. The drive to the dealership was 15-20 mins. To return by bus would have been 2 hours and involved 4 buses. No way. Out here where we live? Fuggeddaboutit! I daresay most places in the US getting one's license at 16 is just the 'done thing'. IIRC my nephew had a license at 15 in Iowa, due to rules around driving farming equipment. And in many places (rural and otherwise) it's pretty normal for a kid to have a car once they turn 16. I'd say usually an old banger or a 'cast off' family car. But it sounds as if in the UK, this is a rare thing.

I promise I wouldn't look at you like you had 3 heads for not driving. But I might 'glance askance' at you. But then again you'd look at me as if I had three heads if I told you that I have NEVER been on a public bus in the US. Or at least, you'd 'glance askance'