To think DS job is unsustainable because he would not be able to financially contribute to the household?

[IFIWASAFISH]

Name changed. Possibly also expecting a battering... For relevance and to avoid drop feeding I am a single parent, just me and DS. I do work but am fairly low income.

DS has worked at a place we will call X for the last three years alongside education. The job is related to his education and it is in the work he wants to do as a career. He is very well liked amongst clients.
He does not have any sort of contract so does not get holiday pay, sick pay or anything similar. He works one set evening per week unless they are closed (when he does not get paid at all) and then he works as and when they need him. For example one week he could only work 2 hours and then the next he could be doing 20 hours depending on if they need him.

This is where the issue is.
From the start DS has repeatedly been told that once he finished education they would be looking at him working a proper contract of a decent amount of hours and he was thrilled with that as it is what he wants to do but It has become clear that this is probably not the case. In the last year or so they have taken other full time staff on and it has become clear that they most likely no longer have the hours or the money to give him for any sort of contract.
The consensus seems to be that they thought he would continue working either the two to four hours a week when needed, have no wage on the weeks they do not need him but would still make himself available during their busy period to work more hours before going back to the two to four hours. This is never set days or hours and is always last minute notice so even if he were to find a different job alongside it would be near impossible to negotiate hours to tie in for both.

AIBU to think this is a waste of time? DS is 21 so can do his own thing obviously but while the work has been great for covering his extra costs and spends during education it seems completely unsustainable in regards to him ever having the money to contribute to the household or even make his own way in life in the future.

AIBU and selfish to not want the financial burden of maintaining the household financially entirely alone for years to come now ds is an adult?

Yanbu but you need to have a conversation with DS. He's not in education and he needs to contribute to the household. Set out what that means in monetary terms, what that will cover in terms of food/bills. Does he know how to budget? Figure out how much he will need to earn and let the penny drop that 2 hours a week is not enough.

Being liked by clients while getting messed around with hours and empty promises is not a good place to continue working. It surely isn't the only workplace in the local area?

YANBU. He's 21 now and has finished education so needs to look at paying his way properly as well as building his career. 2-4 hours a week is not going to do either (unless he's far savvier than me and it's a very well paying industry indeed!).

Set out a reasonable amount of board and when you'd like him to start paying by. X has clearly been great experience for a first job, but they can't provide him with a full time or reliable income so it's time to move on and build on that experience elsewhere.

If he would like the extra money or to keep.a hand in in case full time does come up then DS could let X know he will be happy to pick up the 2-4 hours if they fit in with his new job when he gets one so is happy to stay on the books, but he need more hours now so will need to look elsewhere.

If he's working such limited hours is he claiming Universal Credit?

Think of it this way: it’ll be useful to put on his CV and provide a reference for when he applies for a full time job when he finishes his qualification. Has he given you any indication that isn’t what he’s planning to do?

Perhaps if he get more demanding with the company (eg: said he is looking at other jobs) they might find him a proper contract? They’re not because they think he’s a pushover.

Surely what he's doing will give him some experience that he can apply to future job applications?

It sounds like a pretty dodgy job tbh and that is the bigger issue than you wanting his money

Thank you all

He is in full time education until the summer so not claiming UC currently.

DS is gutted to be honest. He is generally good with money and we had already had a conversation recently about how much he would be getting based on what they had promised and how much similar staff were getting and how much he would give me towards the household and he has been planning to save up for something that he really wants which is quite expensive but this has just thrown everything up in the air.

Initially he was told that they would let him know by now what hours he would be doing but this has changed to him working more hours during the summer and them seeing what they can do in September.
It is a specialist field but there will be similar positions elsewhere.

HeddaGarbled that is how I have told him to look at it. It is a good experience on his CV which should give him a head start over some others when applying for other jobs.

In regards to what is next until today he has thought he was going to be able to go full time where he was so he is a bit thrown. He has already had a look at other positions but he is just sad that he thought he had things sorted.

AnObserverInThisDarkWorld Ironically it is a perfectly legitimate and above board company and position!

To be honest, they have been playing him for a fool the whole time he's worked there. Even zero hours contracts accrue paid holiday and are entitled to statutory employment protections like sick leave. The fact that he's still in full-time education doesn't preclude them from treating him correctly under employment law.

I would encourage him to take the time he's spent with them as great experience, but when he finishes education he needs to move on. And he needs to take some time to brush up on his employment rights so that no one else gets to treat him so shabbily.

They are taking advantage of him.

He is an employee. Regardless of hours he is entitled to 5.6weeks holiday pay per year and he could claim the money from them (and should).

YANBU to want him to get a proper job once he’s finished his studies but he should get away from this bunch of crooks.

"Even zero hours contracts accrue paid holiday and are entitled to statutory employment protections like sick leave. "

Thank you Katmarie, I have never worked zero hours contracts (or casual work as he is classed as) so was not aware of this! He definitely was not paid when he was off with covid.

Zero hours contracts accrue holiday based on how much you get paid in an average week, there's lots of info here:

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/holiday-pay-the-basics

It's also worth noting that even without a contract he has basic employment rights, whatever they might say to the contrary. Have a Google, something like 'employment rights no contract' should start you in the right direction.

This would all be a very useful learning curve for your son, I seriously doubt they are intending to offer him a more formal arrangement, so he needs to put himself first.

Thank you Kat that is so useful!

We had this with DDs part time evening job (12 hours a week) during lock down. Whilst everyone else was getting furlough, she wasn't included as 'casual'. I stepped in and explained the law. She was of course mortified but no so mortified not to enjoy the £80 a week she was then paid.

While I was at it I explained they had never paid any holiday pay. Unfortunately I could only get 2 years back pay out of the 5 she worked.

Shitty shitty employers who exploit teens and young adults really get my goat. If you can't afford to comply with employment legislation then you can't afford to run a business.

He needs to claim back holiday pay and unpaid furlough by working out his average hours prior to lockdown.

But based on their shitty exploitative behaviour he needs to leave them pronto and find a decent employer. ... and yes OP . Contrary to popular MN policy... kids who work do need to pay. Especially if there is only one parent and benefits for the dc have stopped. It is important they learn about costs and budgeting.

Once your child is out of education he needs to be contributing to your expenses, minimum £60 PW initially. Make him aware of this. His employer is taking gross advantage of him.

YANBU...you didn't specify his job so for me the Q would be what else is out there? Let's say for arguments sake he's a hairdresser. Are other salons taking people on? Would he like to 'go mobile', would he like to rent a chair?
If he has no job atm it makes sense for him to continue to work for them, however I'd make sure he gets paid 'properly' so tax NI etc, and I'd also not be at there call. I'd negotiate a wage increase (assuming he's now qualified) and offercspecific availability eg Thursday evenings and Saturdays. They can of course approach him if they stuck however he can't guarantee availability. In the meantime I'd be looking for other opportunities and some 'casual' work as a stop gap. Agency care work offers flexible shifts as does hospitality. Warehouse work is readily available to and is better paid however shifts tend to be rigid.
As he's barely graduated, I wouldnt sweat too much. He can afford to make a few mistakes but I suggest you give him a dead line after which you will be expecting board from him. Plant that seed now so he can plan accordingly. I'd suggest 3 months.

You are entitled to holiday pay but it's often included in your hourly rate. As long as this is identified on his payslips as separate (but likely going in bank at same time). He's not necessarily entitled to sick pay, just the same as the other staff. You need to meet a min income threshold to be eligible for statutory sick pay.
If he's worked for more than 13 weeks he's no longer considered temporary staff but permanent so should have same rights and fair pay compared to the other employees.

What is the job/industry? I agree with everything @katmarie said.

I'm more concerned about him being sufficiently clued up about what he can and should reasonably expect from an employer and the potential routes to building a career in his chosen field.

Now he's graduated he can look for appropriate work in earnest - he should use the Job centre and work coaches to help him find the right thing and in the meantime claim JSA to contribute to the household.

Sorry, not directly answering your question but I do think the company is taking the p* here. I feel for your son but in a way, he might have dodged a bullet by looking to work elsewhere. As long as he enjoys what he does and can build a future where he is financially independent are ultimately what matters