Lockdown report/Covid enquiry - if you supported lockdown do you regret it?

[Hell121]

I haven’t seen a thread on this so sorry if it has been done. In light of the report yesterday I wander if people have changed their minds on whether lockdown was a good idea. I remember the threads of utter lunacy on here and the mask hysteria/schools debate. I was against lockdowns and masks very early on but complied - I don’t think I’d ever do it again. I genuinely think it was a massive overreaction which has damaged things in this country irreparably and left many children and adults far worse off than they were pre covid.

I don't recall making any such comparison re: both cohorts.

Yes, that's rather the point. The fact that you failed to see it.

Why not? I lived under a rule much more onerous. Does that count?

Can you point us to the relevant legislation, so we can see if it also functionally excluded one age cohort of the population? It would need to do that to count.

And I'm sorry, with terms such as 'discrimination' you must be aware they only apply in specific circumstances. What you are referencing isn't one.

Yes, that's the literal exact thing that it is.

The Cambridge Dictionary defines discrimination as people being treated differently to others, usually worse, because of a characteristic they hold. This isn't a very controversial decision, and I presume it's also mutually agreed that discrimination can happen because of age.

Treating people in the age group being discussed in a worse manner because of their age is precisely what happened when this legislation was in force. It's an entirely accurate description.

Agreed. We complied as for the most part as work places closed, schools and colleges were shut etc.

I didn't go crazy washing post or anything but equally I did wear masks and support clinically vulnerable parents etc who were isolating.

It's happened and here we are. I don't regret or celebrate my actions - we just had to crack on.

No, I didn't make the comparison.

I have exactly zero interest in pointing you to legislation in my country. That would only lead you to picking at what I've said more. So, no.

It is fine for me to have an opinion opposite yours without someone like you insulting me and attempting to harangue me off the thread - just as it's fine for you to have an opinion. I wouldn't call your opinion "terrible" if I didn't agree with it. Just move on.

That's a shame you're not going to point us to the legislation. It would've been interesting to better understand why you think having lived under that qualifies you to make the arguments that you have about the English law. You can't think it actually supports your point though, or you'd elucidate.

As for your second paragraph, no. That's not how discussion forums work. You say something, people are entitled to comment on it, and you don't get to decide when that happens.

@Smartnugget NO!! Lockdown two was November 2020 Maybe those of us without kids are less likely to forget this because we had our lives restricted partly so kids could go to school. Fine No problem They needed to go to school But please dont pretend this lockdown never happened. Not gaslighting is the least people can do.

And tier 4 was a lockdown in all but name Most of us in London and Essex were in tier 4 lockdown by Christmas 2020

@Doagooddeed there were plenty of us pointing out the harms of lockdown at the time Check out the AD threads.

@IBetGordonRamsayDoesntHaveTheseProblems Here in North Essex our town centre Tesco blocked off the upper floor by putting pallets of Christmas chocolate and socks in front of the escalator I took a vid on my phone at the time to insure against gaslighting later. I kept staffs faces out of it though.

"We were tier 2 and all surrounding areas were tier 4, this was just before Christmas, we just ended up with massive queues at our retail park as everyone just went there to do their shopping and eat out*

Johnson and Chums announced tier 4 for London and Essex on 19th December 2020 So those who were planning to go to relatives on Christmas Day but were now told "(well now you cant despite us telling you Nov. 2020 lockdown would help you have some semblance of a Christmas) then had to go out and buy food and Christmas food as they didnt have any in because they were planning to go elsewhere. So thats why more people were in the shops.

And it also guaranteed maximum spend Funny that!

The tier system never really worked. we were tier 2 also,so our town centre nightlife was still going. People just came from outside, from their tier 4 areas to party. Our infection rates jumped noticeably, within a few weeks we were tier 3 It was never going to work unless you got all draconian and prevented people entering different tiers.

And then there is the sexism behind what got allowed to open. Men in barbers having their nose hairs plucked while beauty salons remained shut. Us dirty women eh more likely to spread the virus than men 🙄
Caroline Hirons was furious and it became the basis for her Beauty Backed campaign.

I had to walk past three pubs where everyone was maskless and drinking and getting smashed and then don a mask to walk into a supermarket.

You can totally tell men were in charge. Cunts.

Why wasnt Strictly 2020 cancelled? Im fed up of being told how serious this was oh but wait it wasnt serious enough to stop Strictly or DOI. It was serious enough so menopausal women couldnt have their facial hair sorted but not serious enough , therefore men could have their nose hair plucked at the barbers and before anyone says you could have sorted your facial hair yourself well so could the menz

Penis owners and celebs came before women and kids. Either this was serious or it wasnt YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS

Oh and serious enough for the "help" to be masked at award ceremonies but not the celebs

Masks are second nature in countries where sars was.

I don't understand why it was a big deal here I just don't understand why it wasn't the fp2 masm like Italy

Which the UK doesn't have the security apparatus or resources to do.

It's different when everywhere is locked down, because there are a lot of things you can't travel for so the incentive isn't there. But if you can go to a restaurant 5 miles down the road, obviously people are going to do that. There was never any logic at all to it, unlike with lockdown which at least had a coherent rationale.

There’s a lot of talk about minimising the effect on children, and I agree there has been huge affects on many children and vulnerable peoples, and should have been dealt with better.

however there have been a few posters, including myself, who have tried to describe what absolute hell the covid ITU were in spring/summer 2020 and winter 20/21. And we’ve been ignored. It was real and it was ducking terrifying. But that doesn’t fit the narrative of some.

The last few pages have mostly focused on the damage done to children that lockdown didn't actually require. We could've locked down whilst not having a law that functionally excluded many primary aged children from socialisation, in a way that other age groups in the population weren't. We could've locked down whilst encouraging parents to ensure children got outside, saw other children, making it clear that the police were not to harass or fine parents of children who were out playing. None of this is incompatible with holding an opinion that lockdown was justified, and it has nothing do with the situation in ITUs either.

Were the majority in ICU young fit people or were they those with underlying issues? Genuine question.

I know someone always knows, “someone who went to the gym every day and was super fit and never ill, but still died died of Covid” but my medic BIL told me on his unit, apart from the very elderly, 80% of his patients were obese or morbidly obese with the resultant complications.
I’m not saying those with underlying issues are any less entitled to care and protection, but was this really a virus that attacked anyone indiscriminately? If not, why were we locking down healthy people and consequently and needlessly crushing our economy because a healthy economy directly reflects on the health of the population. The two are inextricably intertwined.
During the Spanish Flu epidemics, the average age of death was 28! According to the ONS, the average age for Covid deaths for males was 81, females 85!

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/averageageofthosewhohaddiedwithcovid19

@StormShadow

That's a shame you're not going to point us to the legislation. It would've been interesting to better understand why you think having lived under that qualifies you to make the arguments that you have about the English law. You can't think it actually supports your point though, or you'd elucidate.

The legislation absolutely supports my point. I'm just not interested in making it your entertainment.

As for your second paragraph, no. That's not how discussion forums work. You say something, people are entitled to comment on it, and you don't get to decide when that happens.

As I said, I have no issue whatsoever with other people having opinions and arguments. That is fine and expected. I do have issue with being hassled on multiple fronts, personal comments, unnecessary comments unrelated to the debate etc. it is possible to talk to someone you disagree with without insults.

Were the majority in ICU young fit people or were they those with underlying issues? Genuine question.
I remember over Covid listening to a radio dj who was talking a guy about Covid. He said he was fed up of the words ‘underlying health issues’ being bandied about because he was saying it could describe a lot of people and then the rest of the general public could sleep easy saying’oh but they had something wrong with them.’ He had asthma and he said weight wise he’s in the healthy category but possibly a few pounds overweight. He was 47 and said if he’d died over Covid there’d have been barely a blink of an eye as on a chart the general public would have only heard the overall picture and I remember thinking ‘crap that’s so true!’

It was horrible. I was living in Melbourne at the time, so trapped in my house and country for
6 lockdowns totalling 262 days.. I went along with it but suffered mentally from it.

It really depends on the country you were in, I think. I actually think the country we live in (a little EU one) handled it pretty well. The government’s big stance was that kids were the very top priority and that schools should be the very last thing to close, so our kids only had off those first months from mid March to June 2020, and then they were back full-time from there on out. In the autumn they managed to scrounge up enough teachers and classrooms to cap class sizes at 10 kids, and they treated each class like its own bubble. We had firebreak after Christmas 2020 for a week or two, but that’s it. My kids did not suffer academically that I can see, though I’m sure that’s not the case for everyone.

We are British, and I will say that watching the UK’s lockdown response, especially with the school closures, made us glad to not be there. We have American family, and that situation also seemed like utter mayhem.

I think it’s hard to know the death toll we’d have been dealing with if masking and lockdowns hadn’t been put in place, but looking back, I think the government here made the best decisions they could with the information they had. I don’t feel lockdown particularly negatively affected us, though I know that was not the case for anyone who owned a business or anyone who couldn’t safely and easily work from home for an indefinite period of time. Lockdown affected people very differently depending on their privilege.

The legislation absolutely supports my point. I'm just not interested in making it your entertainment.

Proof or it didn't happen.

As I said, I have no issue whatsoever with other people having opinions and arguments. That is fine and expected. I do have issue with being hassled on multiple fronts, personal comments, unnecessary comments unrelated to the debate etc. it is possible to talk to someone you disagree with without insults.

Assessing your arguments and pointing out the weaknesses in them is not insulting you and it isn't for you to decide whether it's necessary. You will not rebrand asking you to back things up as hassling you.

Not at all. Some people were utterly vile towards those who questioned ANYTHING. Saying the young and healthy should have been able to get on with life isn't 'ablelist' at all; the idea of quarantining people in generally very good health, with no underlying conditions/co-morbidities, was and will always be frankly nuts!

People have such short memories.
Does no-one remember the scenes in Italy of people dying? Of the mass graves in other countries. It was AWFUL.
I'm glad we locked down. It was terrifying.
I was ro happy we got the vaccine and was able to move on.

Well, yes! Because they're vulnerable.

Was a very traumatising time which will mentally scar people for life whether you think so or not, regardless of your stance. It was a shit show.

Our economy is now truly fucked because that £700bill has circulated and ended up in the pockets of the super rich. We have spring boarded online causing physical commercial business/independent communities to collapse. We have been primed for future disasters to come forever stuck online on the stupid smartphones, heading quickly towards a cashless society. I do hope next time we all use our intuition a bit more and have learnt not to follow the hysteria of the lying media and the powers of the global elite word for word.

in the UK the rules were pretty lax you could pretty much do what you like like as long as you were considerate to others. Many western countries had it extremely strict. (France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Canada, Australia, New Zealand). It was pretty frightening to see how easily people could be bribed, manipulated, divided and conquered on the basis of their own health! Sad.

Was very interesting how people failed to understand that science is always changing and is never certain (fact).