Dh's business is insolvent. I'm panicking.

[Malrhia]

I am an employee- a proper one, I do the marketing and most of the design. So I am about to lose my job as well. He employs 15 people so redundancy costs will be high - they've all been there for years. It's not dhs fault, he's lost contract after contract to overseas suppliers despite doing everything he can to keep it going. He said a few weeks ago he was feeling suicidal over it all so of course his mental health is our priority. I'm 58 and jobs are hard to come by where we are (rural northern England). He's owed nearly 200k from suppliers who keep saying they are about to pay but don't. If they did we'd still have to close but at least we could do it properly. He's spoken to his accountants today who agree the only solution is to declare insolvency.

I'm really fucking worried about the financial side of things but more than that dh says he will be traumatised and 'destroyed' with shame when it closes. His dad started the business and it was successful for a time. Don't know why I'm.posting really I can't talk to anyone in rl about it. We don't owe the bank any money I guess that's something.

I was a Finance Manager for a Ltd company that went through very difficult times. Very stressful. The Directors did everything they could but eventually called in an insolvency practitioner. They take the emotion out of the situation and sift through the facts of actions taken by the Directors-the staff were entitled to statutory redundancy which was all handled by the IP. They called a meeting for the staff and told them what was happening and why so your OH won’t need to deal with this.

The two Directors I worked with went their separate ways by forming new companies which are still trading successfully 10 years later.

Yeah we fucking get that you’ve got an opinion. The op clearly needs help and reassurance and your judgmental attitude is really quite shitty. She can’t just turn up on the doorstep of an overseas client and the fact she can’t do that is no reflection on her or her dp

Hi OP- as a practising Insolvency Practitioner I'd just like to confirm the advice given by the other IP who has commented and reassure you that the Redundancy Payments Scheme will step in and deal with statutory payments to the staff. You say your OH is seeing an IP tomorrow. They should be able to get things moving to what from the description you given sounds to me to be a Creditors Voluntary Liquidation. It will all sound daunting at first but listen to what the IP recommends and follow their advice. It what IPs do every day after all! Good luck - you can get through this!

And?

No advice but just to say how sorry I am. Sending

Jesus, do you seriously think that someone who’s managed to employ 15 people for a good few years isn’t chasing their debtors.

It can be INCREDIBLY hard to get people t pay in the UK never mind clients abroad.

Been thought similar and you have my sympathies. It’s a very stressful and destabilising time.
Don’t underestimate the impact on your DH once he’s done with all the practicalities. For us, this was the time that was the worst. Counselling really helped DH but it was like going through a very long grieving process, with lots of fear, introspection and self doubt which was very hard to manage as an onlooker.
Take care of yourself as your strength will be needed and, from what you’ve said, you will be good at providing it even though you’re scared yourself.

Absolutely no one including the OP has said anything like that. Having a limited company just means the impact should be more manageable.

It’s not good for the country for small businesses owners who go under to be crippled for life - it’s very common for businesses to fail and having been through that experience can often lead to
a stronger business second time round.

@Malrhia I’m really sorry you’re going through this, it happened to my Dad when I was a teenager and it really did feel like the end of the world. It isn’t though, the sun will keep coming up and you will rebuild your lives.

If the OP is wrong and the company remains viable, the insolvency practitioner will tell her DH that this is the case and some other agreement will be reached.

You're obviously seeing something in the OP's post that feels familiar to you, @BitOutOfPractice . I've experienced this myself and it can be very tempting to fire off a load of judgmental emails about how easy it is to extract themselves from what you imagine the situation to be. At times like this it's always sensible to step back and remind yourself that you don't actually know the OP or her DH, nor do you know anything about the company, its business, its debtors or its creditors, nor will you because the OP is obviously concerned about confidentiality. So a bit of general support is probably going to go further than snarking.

I think you should be honest with your employees- if you are looking to jump before your wages can no longer be paid, they deserve the same chance, surely?

I get this is hard for you, but at least you know it is coming.

How much worse would it be for your employees, turning up one day to find out they will not longer be paid? If they've been loyal to you, then they deserve a little bit of honesty in turn.

Yes, they can make a claim, but this can take a while to get paid out, and if any of them don't have savings, suddenly losing a job, they will be screwed.

See, when I was a teenager, the company my mum worked for suddenly went bust with no warning. With no warning, her wage stopped coming in (and it was the same for everyone else in the company). The owner got to keep his houses and cars, worth several million. Some of the people who worked for him lost their rented accommodation- they were on minimum wage and living pay cheque to pay cheque.

At least one of them never really got the chance to rebuild her life.

Why should company owners get more protection than their employees? It's not the employee's fault, when a company goes under.

I'm not suggesting they should be "crippled for life", but I do think there should be circumstances where personal assets could be taken to pay unpaid wages.

But as long as the business owner is protected, eh?

Brilliant advice, sensible and kind. It might feel like the end of the world right now OP but this time next year you’ll look back, you’ll have survived and be on to new things. I’ve not had this exact situation in my life, but certainly more restructuring and downsizing than the average person (the joys of working in the public sector sometimes) and it’s very destabilising and scary, but you can and will come out the other side. Just don’t wait for anything to happen, go in with a proactive approach and state of mind. Sending you all good vibes.

It’s horrible. I’ve been there. My DH, my poor hardworking DH sitting on the edge of our bed crying at the thought he’s letting me, the kids, the employees down. When all he ever tried to do was work for a living.

we lost the house to repossession and he was declared bankrupt. It was a terrible time, and he was mortified but actually the receivership and bankruptcy hearings were ok. People could see how hard he’d worked and were sympathetic. It was hard facing his family too, as his Dad had started the company, like your DHs.

losing the house was scary but we got a rental and suddenly it was like a £1500 mortgage millstone was removed from our necks.

Oh if it were only that similar.

DH and I both worked in our company. No jobs meant no wages so no mortgage payments. Our home was repossessed.

as owners we took the risks. We accepted that. Anyone else could have done the same. No one limits how many people can own businesses.

I'm not sure why you think we are delaying telling our employees. We haven't even spoken to the IP yet. Of course we'll tell them when we've made a formal decision.

I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned already but for late payments please try the Small Business Commissioner’s office led by Liz Barclay. she and her team will try to do as much as they can to help. They’re a government funded department but with an actual person you can speak to. It’s also completely free.

For making some noise about late payers try Good Business Pays - also free.

I can’t guarantee that they can get you the £200k back, but they will try to help if they can.

I'm so sorry to hear that you went through this but so happy to hear that you've made it out of the other side. Good luck to you and your dh.

Thanks I'll tall to dh and the finance bod tomorrow and ask them

It infuriates me that late payers can do this to a business.

I’m sorry OP. I hope you’ll have a better idea after tomorrow’s talk. Also, once it’s in the open then the burden of secrecy and uncertainty will lift and that will help.

This was us 10 months ago. The panic, disbelief and the shame BUT you know that's what I felt when it started. As the insolvency went on and our staff got their new jobs and bit by bit things became manageable. Bit like getting on a rollercoaster - scary at the beginning, you go along with the flow and a few little bumps along the way. When the company finally ended I felt relief - a huge weight lifted off our shoulders. Sad time and end of an era for the in-laws but in hindsight it triggered their overdue retirement and we have started our own very much smaller concern now. Hang on in there.
For those saying chase the debt, you can send all the emails and call all you want, if they aren't paying they are paying, it's not like the tele where you can send round the Mitchell brothers until someone stumps up the cash!

Presumably its at least one limited company, hopefully more than one, but at least if its limited and your home is not security in any way then that is ring fenced.

Its fairly normal practice to split a business into an operating company, and an asset / property owning one, if that has been done only the operating company needs to be collapsed and the property company is not affected, meaning you still own most of the assets, if not at least hopefully home is not impacted.

My family had a big company at one time, it collapsed in my childhood, not through anyones fault, but its products became unfashionable and my great uncle didn't progress or diversify, eventually it had to go, along with almost 200 staff, all very stressful and sad for all concerned - most companies eventually fold, get acquired etc. only a few have hundreds of years history.

Our home is definitely not under threat.

Thats good news,

Perhaps you can simply scale back massively, continue in a similar line, but on a much smaller scale. I know a few businesses that have done that very successfully.

Not frustrating just pointless, posting then holding back info 😴