Work asking me to see violent patient while pregnant

[Kitely]

Since I got pregnant work haven’t been great. My two managers have never been pregnant as sadly both have infertility. I was warned that they’re not particularly supportive of pregnant colleagues but I hadn’t seen evidence of this.
I won’t be too identifying but my job involves direct work with patients and also holding a ‘caseload’.
I work three days a week and after going down to part time my caseload didn’t reduce. Infact it got bigger. It’s totally unmanageable at the level it is. Suggested safe caseloads are less than half I have.
I was off for a month with horrendous vomiting. When I returned I received no support checking I was okay.
A 5 minute pregnancy risk assessment was done. It’s so basic and doesn’t include anything on travel which is a basic aspect of the job.
It does state I’m not to work with violent patients.

So far this month I’ve been asked to do the following I’m not comfortable with:
Asked to assess someone out of area meaning I’d be on trains from 9am-9pm except for two hours during the assessment. I’d be utterly exhausted.

Asked to assess a patient who is violent. He spits at staff, throws items, punished walls. He has done this as recently as this morning.

Asked to assess a patient who has criminal convictions for beating up his pregnant girlfriend

Given an extra 5 cases all needing urgent reviews.

So: I immediately questioned the guy who beat up his girlfriend and they reluctantly had to remove him from my caseload as it went against my risk assessment.

I asked about the other violent patient but was told he has a learning disability so it’s not deliberate and also he doesn’t do ‘anything more than throw cups or his handheld cd player at people/ spit at people’. So therefore that’s okay!

The 9am-9pm travel I was told I would be able to rest on the train so not too stressful (not mentioning the walk to the bus, getting on a tram to the location, walking back to the train station etc). It’s an arduous day.

The 5 cases needing reviewing I just decided to push myself to do as I hadn’t had a positive response regarding other concerns. It was a long day but I managed it.

I know there’s a range of options available to me (simply refusing, taking the issue to higher management, getting union involved etc).

I have long before pregnancy had concerns regarding unreasonable caseloads and expected work level. I am thinking of not returning to work after maternity as this level of work won’t be feasible with a baby to look after.

I am struggling in pregnancy with exhaustion. Doctors say it’s totally normal which is true but makes working so much more challenging. I just wish they could understand that and give me work accordingly. My Doctor has offered to sign my off sick the entire pregnancy but I’d not do that as if I need to return I’m worried it would make my life harder when returning.

So before I get assertive and refuse some of these tasks. My AIBU is this, and be honest. I won’t be offended.

Am I being a bit unreasonable not wanting to do the above tasks expected of me? I’m talking specifically about the very long day of travelling and working with the violent patient? I’m worried I’m being precious. I don’t want to take this further if I’m being unreasonable. I just feel exhausted and anxious.
I am 26 weeks pregnant.

This sounds absolutely awful even if you weren’t pregnant but the fact that it’s happening during pregnancy is appalling. Do you think you are being penalised because you are pregnant or would you have been given this workload anyway and they are not given appropriate alterations to your duties?
For comparison when I was pregnant and suffering from vomiting and exhaustion my work - who were brilliant - gave me a rest space on site and worked it so that whenever possible I could work from home, although most of our work is usually done in the building. That’s what a good workplace does.

I understand you may be triggered by that, but I don’t think the OP was suggesting their infertility was directly linked to them being shit managers. Come on, now.

Different people find different things stressful. For me It would be an awful, arduous day. Even when not pregnant I’d return home feeling completely exhausted. In total it’s 10 hours of travelling. I would find a round trip like this tiring.
if it was a direct train with a short walk to my location from the train station I’d maybe not mind.
but it involves further travel either side of the train station.
also my working day is 9-5 and I’m being asked to work over this by 4 hours.

All risk assessments are different, obviously, but my work have told me not to come in from 20 weeks. I'm only in the office two days a week - 90m from each one, overnight stay in between. Office work only.

And travel is a bugger. It messes with meal times, the type of food you get, digestion, and overall makes you tireder. Add in pregnancy on top and you can get knackered, and it would disturb my care routine for another day or two, meaning losing half a week to one trip.

Pregnancy isn't a disease, and pregnant women aren't feeble. But what they are is genuinely 110% productive. 100% of the time your body is making a baby, then you do most of your normal stuff on top.

It's fine to acknowledge that and adjust accordingly.

Clearly they couldn't care less about you.

You need to do WHATEVER is necessary to keep yourself safe.

Start an email trail and look at getting signed off.

My close friend has worked in adult services for 20 years and has several injuries which she didn't deal with that are now causing her issues in her late 50's.

Do not put yourself in any danger.

Be ruthless in putting yourself first.

Note in the email your reduced hours and increased workload.

Don't accept this.

I personally think they’re annoyed I’m pregnant and off on maternity so far piling on the work so that I ‘earn’ my time off.
Several other employees have experienced similar.
One had a doctors note saying she couldn’t do visits but they repeatedly asked her to.
So there’s form for this sort of behaviour at my workplace.
They don’t bother to recruit a maternity worker for maternity posts so they expect you to close all your cases before you go on leave too. Which is a worrying practice.
but obviously I can’t prove what I suspect.
I definitely think the long travel day was deliberately given to me.
They knew no one would want to do it so gave it to me. There’s some evidence these long travel days have been deliberately given to pregnant workers in the past few years.

Not surprised by the risk assessment - I honestly believe it’s just a tick box exercise to say it’s been completed.

can your doctor not write a fit note (this could be the wrong name for it) staying reasonable adjustments need to be in place until you go off for maternity leave?

Unfortunately you have shit managers so are going to have to stand firm OP. Do you feel strong enough to? My place of work sounds similar and no way would a pregnant woman be allowed anywhere near a violent client. They are normally put on light duties due to the unpredictable nature of most clients. You also wouldn't be expected to travel so far. Honestly, i would look at getting signed off. Check to see if affects your maternity package.

You shouldn't be placed with anyone that has a known history of violence
Put everything in writing and ask for a written response
Extending your working day has to be agreed by both parties as far as I'm aware
Then refuse to do it
Can't believe this shit is still happening

Are you in a union, OP?

If you are, I'd ask for your rep, or a local health and safety officer to have a look at your risk assessment. They will advise you on what to do next if it's inadequate, and can support you through the process of getting a better one.

They can also discuss the specific situation of the violent patient. FWIW, I think, if nothing else, "violent" needs to be more clearly defined. I would consider someone who spits and throws to be violent, and therefore covered by the risk assessment. Them having learning disabilities really doesn't impact the risk they are to you.

If you think you are being treated unfavourably due to being pregnant, then I'd also ask your union rep to raise this with your managers. Very often, the threat of union involvement will be enough to get most people to back off.

If you're not in a union, to be honest I would consider joining one before things go any further. You really need someone in your corner, who can tell you what's reasonable for your workplace, and who can guide you through the various processes you may need to follow.

I would also consider the option of going off sick again if it doesn't impact your maternity pay. You may find that focuses your manager's minds- that they'd rather have you in doing some work, than not at all.

I don't think @Decaffe does "sound like a dick" in pointing that out.

It's not safe for you while pregnant. I think so many jobs are unsafe for women.

Women are put into so many situations that are dangerous.

My brother lives in supported living. In a block of flats that are all supported living flats. Most of the people that live in these flats are lone males.

One young woman social care worker goes round every day to visit these men in these flats, to help them. I was just thinking it's so unsafe.

It should be a man and a woman, or at the very least - two women.

Companies do not take women's safety seriously .

I have another friend who works as a social care worker. She was sent round to visit men in their houses. One of the men was violent and pushed her down the stairs.

OP I'm so sorry this is happening to you, I can't understand how anyone could think that this is acceptable treatment of a pregnant woman.

You need to involve your union rep, in the absence of that straight to HR. I would go so far as to say get legal advice. They are knowingly putting you and your baby at risk. How is a risk of violence somehow different coming from a person with learning difficulties? Diminished responsibility, sure, but the outcome is the same!!

It's OK for your other female colleagues to be near violent patients of course, just not you

I couldn't do the 12 hour travelling but then I had severe pelvic pain, sciatica and morning sickness..also hopefully there are toilets on the trains!
People saying op is precious I've been through this when I was pregnant and depending on how you are with the pregnancy, it can be very difficult especially in the third trimester.
I had to get signed off in the end and wfh as I couldn't walk anymore in between travelling and sitting for hours.
Also the violent patients, clearly a no no what if they hit you in the bump.
You could get signed off if you're not coping but then they would put you on maternity leave asap.

OP you need to get really assertive about this. None of this is reasonable at all. This weekend, start by composing an email to your head of department. If you can, self-refer to Occy Health.
Contact your union rep first thing Monday morning, start making waves and bat it all back. Boundaries.

Violent patients, we'd discuss, risk-assess and have a management plan for if it all went wrong.
Who's going to be with the violent man on the day? Does he have carers? Are they on board with clinical holding /breakaway?
2 members of your staff should be present for this type of scenario. You also need to strip the room out so there's nothing to throw /use as a missile and make sure you are nearest the door /escape route at all times.
Has all this been looked into or are you just expected to get on with it ?

Hey OP, sounds like you might do what I do or very similar (AMHP) … this is terrible in terms of risk assessment. Most authorities will withdraw you from practice for the duration of your pregnancy. I had a varied response in my first pregnancy and can honestly say I regret not standing up for myself more.

You need a proper risk assessment which should cover things like the need to access a hygienic toilet, smells triggering nausea and long car journeys as well as violence. If you feel your risk assessment is insufficient I would ask to either speak with your managers manager or hr. Request an occupational health assessment. Remember that your employer does not want to hear the words maternity discrimination.

You could also look at the grievance process but this is probably stress you don’t need.

Are you quite alright? A patient who throws cups is perfectly fine?????? WTAF

I am disabled in the NHS and they are always trying to push me to do things I cannot do. Now I just say no I'm not doing it, I've got the union involved and I do an incident report every time so I have a paper trail.

I’ll spare you the details but my neighbour is a female mental health nurse who only survived unharmed because 1. She runs, 2. Had keyless car entry.

Generally movement is restricted while pregnant - for that reason alone you don’t want to be in high risk situations.

Are you in a union by any chance?
Either way, you prob need to get signed off or see occupational health.

Literally NOBODY has said that besides you!

Op, I have worked with violent patients and no bloody way should you be dealing with them pregnant. I can’t believe they pulled the learning disability card because the fact is he is violent towards staff it’s moot as to why that is disability or not it’s a risk to you. Spitting alone is enough for you to not deal with them. Sure you can catch things off spit. We have a good few with tb and it’s considered very serious if you are spat at. In fact, when handling spit samples from these very patients we have to be very careful and have Ppe on. So no way would I even humour some of the cases you mentioned. I’m not saying you are going to end up with an infectious disease but patients that spit are high risk and should be considered as such in your risk assessment. Your job are chancers. If you don’t want to be signed off, I would go to a union. To be fair, regarding the travel your doctor could stipulate you can’t do long days of travel ect on a cert. I got one spelling out what wasn’t safe in my job for me as there was, like yourself, a bit of minimising of risk with what I had to deal with. A lot of the time it’s common sense and there is no excuse for it to not be used!

@CovertImage unfortunately this is part of the job. I work in mental health, you will get whacked. In fact most people working in healthcare are assaulted at some stage. If you're not you're the exception.

OP ignore all those idiots going on about how a 12hr day and travelling is fine for you. For me travelling is horrendously exhausting, nerve wrecking and would make me so motion sick so no I would be refusing that as well. Being on a train is literally the last thing I'd ever want to do.

Remember that people who worked 12hrs days nursing etc are contracted for that you are not. You are being asked to work extra hours beyond what you are contracted and paid to do and just because you are sitting on a train doesn't give them that right. (Unless you're a train fanatic that would do that as a hobby then why the hell should you spend any extra time doing it.)

And ignore anything about your colleagues having to pick up slack or work with violent people more, again that's not your problem, it's for them to sort or not but nothing to do with you either way.

I'd either take your gp letter or just have a very Frank discussion with them about what you will and wont be doing.

People say pregnancy isn't an illness but let's be honest it's sometimes the worst time of a woman's life for many different reasons so take care of yourself