If you work in the nhs would you get in trouble for this?

[Bewilderedbotheredbemused]

Looking at a patient who isn’t your patient’s notes.

so say a nurse on ward a looked a patient x’s (someone the nurse knew) notes who was on ward b. If the nurse was found out, would they get into trouble?

would they be able to tell if a nurse / doc had done something like this after the fact?

(for clarity I have not done something like this, someone I know is making some allegations about another person I also know)

Yep. Instant dismissal I'd assume.

It doesn’t really matter whether it is vengeance or not. It’s gross misconduct and difficult to believe they didn’t know it was when they accessed the records.
Unless the patient gave permission for the relative to be given a ‘state of the nation’ then she shouldn’t have been giving any info to the relatives. And if she’s not involved in the patient’s care then she shouldn’t have been accessing their medical records. If it’s an E record there definitely will be a trace and given she passed that info onto a 3rd party I would have thought it would be taken seriously.

if it’s paper notes it would be hard to prove, but if electronic it is all traceable for as far back as you care to go.

it’s really not allowed, you should only be looking at the notes you need to in order to be affectively do your job. When my mum was on the ward I was working on I wasn’t able to look at her notes and the doctors couldn’t update me until she gave her permission for them too just like any other relative.

@iluvsummer how do you get your medical records audit done? Thanks

That's bloody stupid, so you can never update family?

At my trust, anyone phoning for an update on a patient is meant to know a certain password for that patient. Before the password thing came in, we would need to ask the patient for their permission.

I think things became more strict with the password after that awful case where a radio show phoned the hospital where Kate Middleton was pretending to be the Royal family, and the nurse who put their call through hung herself.

Well yes that makes sense and is entirely sensible.

In our trust if you have to access someone not on your ward/caseload (maybe if you are working on another ward) it will flash up with a warning saying that they aren’t allocated to you and you have to choose a drop down to say why you are accessing their notes.
It’s taken very seriously in our trust.

I worked on a labour ward and yes didn’t matter who rung we wouldn’t tell them anything. How am I to know that they really are the woman’s mother/sister, etc……they could be the partners ex trying to find stuff out?

Sometimes people would ring and say so and so isn’t answering their phone, she’s 9 months pregnant so I’m wondering is she in labour and with you. Hmmm, if she wants you to know she’s in labour she will tell you.

Sometimes we would go to that person and say your sister is on the phone, can I tell them stuff. But with someone in Labour it’s not always appropriate to go and disturb them to ask them stuff like that.

I’m not NHS but am government (Immigration) and if you are caught looking up anyones records that you don’t have authority to do then you can be sacked for this (and I’ve seen this happen). Any government job you are not allowed to access records that you have no business in doing so

Yes, if no medical reason why you be sacked end of story. If online there's a form to fill in if you need access to medical notes and manager made aware if no reason to for you see this patient...can't believe anyone look at the brief notes at end of bed...most notes are online now. But yes nurse be sacked!

I'm pretty sure a few people got sacked for accessing Amy Winehouse's notes. The hospital system was already electronic at the point and added the names of anyone accessing the notes to a section at the end so it was v easy to tell.

It is a stackable offence.... but if you work in my Trust the management/HR are so inept that they will balls up the investigation.... so the person will have grounds to appeal and get away with it.

Nurse in neighbouring trust took photos and videos of unconcious patients with covid and put them on his FB. Still working at the Trust!!

If the nurse was concerned about their care I suspect they had other routes to go down, but I hate this approach to patient care. It hides behind GDPR.

My dad was hospitalised multiple times of 5 or 6 years before he died having been oxygen starved during an operation. He was very badly managed eg he wasn't given insulin, didn't have his bloods tested and when he did they were sky high, his fluid in and out weren't monitored and he had a massive heart attack etc. I used to check his records to confirm all was OK. The NHS removing them is just basically covering it's arse rather than focussing on patient care and getting everyone to help with this. It's shameful.

I hope the nurse doesn't get into trouble over this, my dad, my husband and my cousins husband were all killed by the nhs, so having someone care for you by checking your records should not be a stackable offence. Those records belong to the patient, so if they give permission for someone to check, that should be acceptable.

They did a whole 3 hour lecture when I was at uni about it, why you shouldn't do it and the repercussions of it.

I heard this too

So the nurse worked in the hospital and was asked by the family to help them know what was going on with their relative as they were struggling to get information? That's completely different from accessing information about a famous person out of curiosity.
I would suggest they speak urgently with their union rep but there were points in covid where wards were very stretched and I've known other staff be invaluable liaison for families they knew. If this is malicious that will come across. After speaking to the union rep it might be as well for the nurse to make their line manager aware they believe a malicious accusation will be made. I wouldn't do that without advice though.

Absolutely not allowed.

It would be very easy for our Trust to know if this has happened as all our records are electronic and they know who has accessed what records and when.

Yes it would be flagged, whether it came to anything though is a different matter- it is a sackable offense and something anyone in healthcare would for sure know is a no no. For the painkillers too this would have to be evidenced to hold any weight, but the process of being investigated is stressful sadly. I'd also recommend they speak to their union rep.

This happened at a previous workplace and the individual recieved a formal warning but wasn't sacked. Mitigating factors was that it wasn't done maliciously and the employees record was otherwise clean.

When we have a famous patient, the information governance team check who has accessed their electronic patient record and will challenge anyone who looks like they may have accessed it for non patient care related purposes.

Oh, and quite famous people (including premier league footballers) absolutely do end up in NHS hospitals on occasion. Private hospitals just aren't set up to deal with every medical situation (e.g. when BoJo became unwell with COVID).

I rung the hospital and asked to speak to the information governance officer then put my request in an email.

Yes that’s precisely it but the person making the allegation will deny that they ever asked now

Happened where I worked back in the late 1990’s.

Member of staff (not qualified) was asked by someone connected by relationship to one of their blood relatives (so a family member of worker’s family members boyfriend/girlfriend) to look up some results which they did; they told the person who asked that they were ready and they should ask gp surgery to give them results - so the staff member didn’t give results just said they were on the system - family fallout not involving worker followed and they were reported to trust. Got sacked for gross misconduct and unable to get any sort of job for a long time.

I've been on disciplinary panels for this in the past and everything you do is logged and reconciled on a monthly basis (or at least it was in my Trust but not for all areas - quite confusing). If it is found that you're looking up the notes of a patient that you're not caring for, it falls under Gross Misconduct as the acceptable use policy and information governance policy explicitly states you must not do this and it is a Gross Misconduct offence.

If you're caught, you'll face 2 charges of Gross Misconduct. The first being the looking up of patient details that you have no right to see and the second is bringing the Trust's reputation into disrepute. The 2 combined, if upheld, results in the dismissal of the employee. Only on 1 panel did we not dismiss as there were reasonable mitigating circumstances that don't apply here.

I'd advise against it unless you want to lose your job.