Not BU just need some advice, difficult 9 year old DD

[Puddle23]

After some advice from anyone experiencing similar. We have a lovely DD age 9, when she's lovely she is wonderful and thoughtful but her default is defiant, argumentative and it's wearing me and DH down.

She's been challenging since age 4, more than the typical difficult behaviour I saw from her peers. Her behaviour ebbs and flows so we think maybe theres some ND behaviour going on, then she settles down again. It's been this continuous cycle ever since.

Anything we ask her to do is a battle, leaving the house is always draining, we ask her to get ready, we've tried not being prescriptive with demands but then she just lies on the floor or gets distracted, if we give specific instructions to help her focus she also doesn't follow them.

She is so argumentative her default position is no even if we said would you like to go to the cinema there would be arguments and annoyance from her about what film we are seeing even if it was one she wanted to see.

We recently spent some time with extended family with children a similar age and the difference in them was stark, they were happy and grateful and positive and my DD was sulky, moany, whingy and that's on holiday doing things she wanted to do.

We've tried everything, reward charts for good behaviour, giving her autonomy on things so she doesn't feel she's battling for control, consequences for bad behaviour, family rules where she's helped write them...nothing works.

Emotionally I'd say over trivial things she's very immature and her reactions are not commensurate with the events, but bigger things she seems to handle with maturity at the right level for her age.

I don't feel there is the usual parent/child dynamic as she acts as though she's equal to us!

She's bright, above age in all areas other than spelling, school just say her focus sometimes is off but other than that she gets great reports from school.

She's dimming a lot of the joy in our house 😕 any advice or insight we'd really appreciate.

I think you're right to suspect that she may be ND. She sounds very much like our DD who is now on the pathway for assessment for ADHD and ASD and they also suspect dyslexia and ARFID.

DD similarly had great reports from school but saying she perhaps needed to focus more.

If you do suspect that she may be ND I'd urge you to seek assessment soon as you've got the double whammy of puberty coinciding with High School looming in the horizon

Definitely seek assessment - I’d be considering autistic spectrum with a PDA profile, maybe with ADHD as well.

not unusual at all for girls with that profile to do well in school, until everything unravels with mental health issues once adolescence hits.

if you say whereabouts you are there will be posters who can advise on next steps in your area.

My biggest advice is to go private if you possibly can - in our area NHS waiting lists are 3 to 4 years.

Is she getting enough sleep and does she have a rigid routine?

Thank you so much that's mind made up then, we will seek a diagnosis.

Does anyone know how it works - do we speak to school?

My biggest advice is to go private if you possibly can - in our area NHS waiting lists are 3 to 4 years

Caudwell Children might be able to help you with this

She has a lot of sleep, gets about 10 hours minimum. We are pretty routine led just because of many after school activities she does, term time behaviour is definitely easier to manage than holidays where there is less of a routine

Does anyone know how it works - do we speak to school

School didn't listen to us so we went through the GP.

Thank you, we've spoken to a GP before but that was years ago and they said school would help but I have a feeling they may not be that supportive!

She sounds nd to me.

My dd is much younger and was diagnosed with autism last year. She's also going to be assessed for adhd when she turns 6.

Speak to the school, if they try and refer you to the gp say no they have to do it.

Trying to avoid all demands (including for fun things!) and feeling themselves equal to adults are both classic PDA / autism with a demand-avoidant profile behaviours. Neither reward charts nor punishments/time outs are very effective in that situation, you need to lead through their interests instead, and give autonomy (which you are already trying).

Thanks everyone, I was so hesitant to post but I'm so glad I did as it's just given me that extra push I needed to seek help for my DD. Can't thank you all enough!

Sounds identical to my dd 11 she was diagnosed with ASD two years ago.

Dimming the joy in your house is a little harsh, I have 3 nd children and me and partner are nd (a range of different diagnosis) coping skills are a must and so is seeking diagnosis. We can get overwhelmed incredibly easily making it seem we are ungrateful or moody when inside a situation can feel like torture and absolute misery. Self regulation skills, coping skills, self understanding, a proper diagnosis and emotional support can change her life and yours drastically. Be prepared for a big life change though you can't make a nd person fit a nt world especially in the home that has to be a safe space. If your knowledge is limited join some forums you will get far more helpful information than from parenting books or paediatricians. Good luck xx

She sounds a lot like my son who is autistic and I suspect pathological demand avoidance. It is hard, it would be worth having a look online for some advice, also the pda society on Facebook.

My immediate thought was ASD with demand avoidant profile.

The fact you've often wondered if she's ND means you're seeing behaviours you know are T typical and it sounds like you've done a great job of trying to understand and support her.