AIBU for being fuming with ex?

[Ontheperiphery79]

This weekend, my ex was visiting our DC and wanted to take both to see some family members.

Our DC are ND (both on waiting list for Autism Assessment.

One DC absolutely fine to go, the other flatly refused and I could see her getting visibly stressed with his arsenal of manipulation to get her to comply, including telling her she could go in the front of the car 🤬 (for context, they're 5yr old twins).

I butted in and said she didn't have to go. I've explained to him countless times that she's not being lazy or obstinate. Her sensory processing differences can make her vomit (such as the wrong 'smell' or 'noise'), which happens without fail when she is in his car (no-one else's car has this effect upon her, funnily enough).

Anyway, he wouldn't let it drop and DC started sobbing in a pre-meltdown fashion and I picked her up and took her to my bedroom.

He followed, yelling at me that a 5 year old child needs to do what they are told, whatever "condition" (and he waved his hand in a dismissive manner) they have and I'm setting them up to fail in life, by giving into them (especially her, apparently). He ended by saying that anything that is wrong with them is my fault.

Upshot was that he took the other DC for the day, and I asked him to leave after more having a go at me when they got back.
WIBU? Should I have forced my Autistic child to have gone to see her family with her father?

I don't think I use their Autism as an excuse to let them opt out of things/do what they want, but maybe I am without realising?!

I'm left feeling confused and hurt, as felt bullied by him, which is not a new experience, but to be told I'm a bad parent? It's a kick in the teeth.

Hope this makes sense, as I'm also ND (Autistic/ADHD) and cam struggle to get my point across.

Hi @Ontheperiphery79 It was so strange to read your post. I could have written that myself. My ex behaves in exactly the same way though DD is nearly 8. My DD has exactly the same sensory and emotional needs as you describe. I feel exactly as you. I’d have done the same and my rationale is not from the angle of “she’s got to deal with these emotions so get on with it” but much more to do with the fact that trusting the primary care-giver (attachment) is crucial to future mental health and healthy development.
It’s hard I think for some to understand, but with girls like DD, if they experience something that results in a multi-level emotional and physical breakdown the ripple effect lasts weeks and weeks and affects everything else. The consequences are long ranging and vividly remembered and associated. So, I keep things calm, routine, peaceful, boring some might say; however, the longer these periods can last without incident means DD can actually experience a childhood rather than crashing from one visceral response to another, all the while building up a back log of traumatic experience. Sod that.
My ex is a selfish arse who expects DD to like the same things as him, have the same opinions and basically mould to his will and expectations; he actually stalks off in a huff with a muttered “f you, then” if she has a different answer than the one he wants to hear.
I would have done exactly the same as you because, at the end of the day, DD is a child in emotional distress while he is a stroppy adult unable to tolerate the needs of others.
DD has shown signs of autism since she was very young and was finally diagnosed when she was 5, after a gruelling two years of assessments and wait and sees and appointments. Ex still dismisses her needs and likes to compare how other children can do things she can’t do (ride a bike, tolerate hot curries, do very, very basic maths…you name it). It’s crap. But it sounds to me as though you’re doing just fine: you’re putting your child first, based on her needs. Trust your gut and well done for showing your girl she can trust you to have her back when she’s struggling to articulate what she needs right now.

Yabu op!

@HairyFeline you've said what i wanted to say about my girl far better than I could have done, so thank you.

I don't mind if people think I'm being unreasonable, as everyone is entitled to their opinion, but exploring this situation on MN has helped me see that I did right by my daughter (as I try to do each and every day).

Our girls need to know we have their backs, including not letting them feel they to bend their will to any domineering adult.

💚

OP, with the greatest of respect one minute it's "awaiting assessment for autism" and "nd" and the next it's "bending their will to any domineering adult". If they haven't been assessed then you don't know whether or not they're nd, and it's not any (domineering) adult, it's their father. Kindly, I would try and see if you can meet him half way for parenting, it will be in their best interest in the long run to see their parents working together because they love their children.

@Ontheperiphery79 ok that's fair you didn't know if you being unreasonable when you posted and now you believe your not.

Look the only reason I flagged court is because of some of my work has crossed paths with the family court (it's pro bono work with dv victims not my day to day) and if that was a route your ex takes you could be accused of parental alienation (please can we not get into a debate over this whether PA exists - the courts still penalise parents for this so this is why I'm flagging to op).

I don't know the specifics of your life and I'm not accusing you of it. But I'm flagging it so your aware since you mentioned your ex is controlling . I have seen (and again excuse the generalisation) women suffer the consequences of this and it's brutal.
Document issues.

That said I know you mentioned your ex is used to steamrolling you, any chance that theirs some ND from his side ?
I have met plenty of people who "don't believe in it" and funnily enough they would tick every box of assessed.
Not all ND plays nice with each other is what I'm saying, if your both yelling at each other one in Japanese, one in Chinese, neither is wrong but the communication isn't gelling, picking a im right and his wrong or she's wrong and I'm right misses the nuances. Esp if you have one adult (dad) rolling around the place with ND who's in denial about it and basically acting out when they see the same behaviours in their children in themselves. It can be triggering.
I know because my ex is most definitely asd but doesn't believe in it 🙄 and he struggles with our DD (meltdowns) because they trigger him.

It's worth just looking at it from a different lens is what I'm saying. I could be completely wrong (and that doesn't matter to be tbh), you don't have to like your ex but I think it's worth making sure they do have sometime independent of you maybe at park or fun days ect

All the best 💐

@Ontheperiphery79
Just to say you are a wonderful mother, I can't believe some of the responses you've had here, especially from parents of other ND children. I suppose it goes to show that even ND kids are all different.
I could have no more forced my child to go out in these conditions than flown to the moon. You know your own child. You know when something is just too much for them to face, & in my opinion it would have been absolute CRUELTY to force the child out. Plus, who'd have been left with a child in absolute bits later on? Not the ex!
Stick to your guns.
(I am also a mum of now grown up ND kids who have thanked me for having their backs in situations like this, so I do know what I'm talking about.)

@MollyRover as an AuDHD woman I do know whether my children are Autistic/have ADHD/are Neurodivergent - whatever term I choose to use - as it's my lived reality.

I clarified with awaiting assessment, as I know some people don't agree with referring to oneself or one's offspring as ND/Autistic/Whatever until an official diagnosis has been received. I respect other people's opinion on this and don't try to change their mind, but I'm comfortable with my stance.

I more than meet him halfway for parenting, believe me. I just haven't listed all the ways I do here. I honestly don't know any other resident parent that has gone to the lengths I have to ensure he remains in regular contact.

The other day was the first time I have ever said "no" and felt confident enough to ask him to leave calmly.

But, I've heard everything you and other PPs have said and I'm still processing/reflecting around it, so it all helps.

Thank you for your reply.

@candlesflamesandbrooms thank you very much for your reply.

The only experience of family court is when 2 of my ex's children were in foster care and SS went through court for court orders etc.
Definitely appreciate what you are saying about parental alienation as, interestingly, he accused his first wife of this (don't know the particulars, as not my story to tell).

My ex failed 2 SS parenting assessments a few years ago(which I know is a drip feed, but specificities can be outing and you never know who is on MN), so I know he's always struggled to parent with his own life issues (and, I think he is ND, but he doesn't want to explore this, so I have to respect).

I kind of feel he is embarrassed to have ND children and he just says there's nothing 'wrong' with his other kids, so pushes it back on me and my parenting (I've worked bloody hard on my parenting and I try to be 'good enough' for them, although I'm always beating myself up internally/putting myself down, as I constantly feel like I'm not good enough as a human, never mind Mum).

Strangely, I don't dislike my ex. I care about him as the Father of my girls and sometimes he and I can have good conversations. I just don't like feeling bullied in my home and I don't like what I perceive to be bullying/domineering behaviour towards my 5 year old girls.

We get time apart in a regular basis, even in the hols, with play-dates and the activities they do. Because most of my family aren't alive and the majority of my exist family are in their home country, apart from the few in my county and the county he lives in, I've 'grown' a really good network of decent adults and their kids in our lives. I'm quite introverted, but challenge myself to make and stick to plans regularly for DCs. They do a lot of active stuff to help their hyperactivity and we're lucky to have a pretty great ND community where we live and a lot of inclusive low cost/free clubs/activities.

Thank you again for persevering with me. I really appreciate it.

X

@Ontheperiphery79 on the not disliking your ex - funnily enough im the same with my ex. We ended on fairly bad terms but because we are both ND once we had a fairly ridge contact pattern and that was established everything slotted into place. There were all the emotions rolling around if that makes sense ?

I think if you think there maybe some ND there with the ex, even if he won't admit it (and frankly doesn't need to) it may help you weed out the behaviours from ok he's not being a knob on this occasion he's x because of y, let's try x or on occasion he may just being a knob. This helped me reframe things in my head and it did smooth things down because I wasn't always going straight to the (he's such a knob - which ND or not he certainly can be) I hope that makes sense ? (I feel like I haven't worded it well).
Maybe with the ex next time this type of things happens instead of clamping down go ok why don't you do x or y ? It maybe because he's overwhelmed that your dd is overwhelmed it was a bit of a noise sensory overload for everyone (including you ?) I hate loud noises and my dd has some lungs on her.

I have found that honestly once a routine was established and my ex knew where we was at, what times were expected, where he was going with dd. Things got a lot less hard and my dd had less meltdowns because neither one of us were stressed and she knew what was happening and when. I don't care what anyone says my dd does pick up on my emotions and others (just doesnt display it in a typical way?)

Parenting a ND child is hard, being ND is also hard but actually from my perspective with a bit of empathy from each parties "quirks"I suspect you will be able to make this work really well. We did and I think you will do it as well. It's hard as fuck though so 🍷 helps !

You need to work together so you have a set routine of him seeing them and the three of them learning to understand each other. Contact being in your house is confusing boundaries for everyone involved.

Also when you said about your ex being embarrassed- describe ND to him like you just speak different language neither it wrong or right but yelling louder in each language isn't gonna help anyone.

Also there's a school of thought that says ND is our brains natural evolution. People are weird about ND like it's never been around but frankly it's always been around it's just people where called "quirky"

Don't let his views on his own issues, muddy yours or your dd.

Also don't worry about the dripfeed. It's a weird MN thing that I have never understood why people get so uppity about. I suspect his instability at the moment is clouding things but it won't always do that !

@mamabear715 thanks for your reply.
I haven't been upset/offended by anything anyone says, as people have such differing views, especially around the emotive topic of children.
I try to read/process all replies and everyone has given me stuff to think about, even if I don't agree with every point.
💚

@Sirzy thanks for your reply.

I've tried to work with him to set an established schedule of contact, as it would help all of us, but most importantly our DC. I have set routines with our DC, as they thrive under those conditions. My ex finds time management difficult and is more last minute/non-commital than me, which is confusing for our DC (and makes planning things difficult).

They can't currently stay with him at his flat because of the set-up there. He also lives 4 hours drive and so he can only visit once a month.

Trying to do right by my DC and not create barriers to him being able to come, I've let him stay at mine, as otherwise it's unlikely my DC would have seen him with any degree of regularity. Having grown up without a Father, I have tried to do what I can, when I can, to pave the way for them seeing him, often to my own detriment.

Because he is on UC and has other children, he only has to pay £9 a month maintenance for our 2 DC (even though I know he also works cash in hand). I've never used that as an 'excuse' to stop him seeing the girls and I do try to just accept him for who he is, as we all have our flaws/limitations.

I will always have my part to play in the dynamic and in no way am I trying to imply that anything is 'all him'. I kind of feel like I've tried to do my best by everyone, but most importantly my children. It's why I - perhaps erroneously - have let him stay to ensure he does actually come and spend quality time with our DC.

Monday was the first time in a long time that I'd said "no" to something, as I felt he was trying to manipulate and bully our child, as he often does to me. And, there's actually only so much I can take.

So, I'm not sure what the answer is going forward, but yes, him visiting the girls does mean that he will need to find somewhere within the locality to stay and I'll definitely be taking our DC to where he lives over the Summer, so he is not doing all the travelling, and DC and I can stay in a B&B clos4 to his flat (he lives in a large town, so plenty of options).

In the meantime, I'll do as I always try to do with both DC, which is find a work around when they find something challenging.

@candlesflamesandbrooms I think I've possibly not taken into account just how much my ex and I differ in our understanding and experience of all things ND.
He's not British - he's European - and his family really are lovely, but they're very much of the children need to do exactly as adults say school of thought and to not answer back/say no etc. I think he possibly thinks my more exploratory/collaborative approach in raising girls results in children who are TOO strong willed etc (he's the oldest surviving male in his family and he's quite patriarchal). I definitely need to have a think about that.
I don't often let the girls opt out of stuff, but my DC was in such distress - and she so rarely is able to show how she is feeling and assert her needs - I felt compelled to intervene.
I think there's definitely fault on both sides and, after half term, I'll be able to have a proper chat with my ex (once the dust has settled and little ears are absent).
💚

And @candlesflamesandbrooms thank you for all your have said, as it's made perfect sense to my often confused locomotive of a brain and I think both ex and I do need to try to understand each other better and that be reflected in how we are towards one another.
💚

@Ontheperiphery79 ahh I like that locomotive brain (I get this too) I may steal that wording.

I work with various people with trauma and it's interesting because people often know the way they were brought up had pit falls, but often use them as a guide to adult and any suggestions that the way they do things is seen as a slight on their childhood.
This gets complicated if his family told him ND is bad/doesnt exist so he probably maskes etc.

I think when dealing with someone whos angry it's usually a good shout to figure out why and not just look at one factor (in your example dd not wanting to go), other factors for everyone would be the noise levels, change in pattern, feeling like a failure. I personally think that ND people are often very good at looking outside the box without sticking a load of emotions to it.

Compassion is needed for both of you, and although I don't doubt your ex is a arsehat- someone who's family might literally reject him for who he is (ND) is a sad state of affairs.

I love a routine and I bet so do you and your dc and so will your ex. The early days of co parenting are hard but it does get better.
I like the big bang theory quote that says "this is non optional social convention event" but this needs to be applied to only very small select situations and I don't know if it applies in this situation but I found it helpful to differentiate between the two for my dd.

Btw this is all just what worked for me and I know what works for some won't work for others but hopefully this will help ❤️