to look for a line between autism acceptance and tolerating unreasonable behavior

[greenlegs]

DS13 recently formally diagnosed with ASD (possibly with a bit of PDA, tbc). DH and I likely both autistic too. We're both doing lots of reading to try to understand what it means, and to help DS avoid worst of being an autistic teenager.

DH tells me I sound like someone's old fashioned grandmother when I ask where we draw the line between encouraging him not to mask, to feel free to be himself etc, vs not validating being demanding, uncompromising, rude, lazy etc.

AIBU to think even though he's autistic he needs to learn to respect other people, including me?

Oh and for the record he's mostly very nice and overly well mannered. Do we just have to keep highlighting what is acceptable at home vs how other people are likely to react?

I do a lot of explaining and exploring with DS1 (10). He is bright and finds social interaction frustratingly impossible to fathom. He often doesn’t want to hear what I tell him at first but it seeps through and makes his life easier in the medium term, so I persist. He’s very very rules driven so I try to give him rules to follow and explain the logic for them. Yes, it’s masking, but he agrees that the benefits of, eg not freaking people out by getting up in their faces too much, is well worth it.

I wish I had an answer for this. My DD gets very frustrated about having to mask anything. She would love to exist in a world that was half way between the klingon home world and Vulcan but she doesn’t so there is that.

Klingon homework’s so she could be vengeful over life’s irritating infractions and Vulcan so people would use only rational thinking and zero emotion for every action they take.

My child has Asd/adhd .

I still see my Ds has to function in the world. Do yes we talk about things - not in the middle of a meltdown - what could you do differently next time .

he finds questions like how do you feel ? Are quite irritating to him - how do you think they felt .

we also do have some boundaries in place , these are rules about time he hands tech over, no hot food upstairs. Things that make things better

You are 100% not unreasonable.

My son is 10 with ASD and I wouldn’t tolerate violence and repeated unpleasant behaviour.

Of course
Same as with any other kid

The question that remains is.
To find the middle ground

Masking to please others and fit in your whole life only to realise at age 37 that you have let the real you die in the process.... not too great

There is times to mask or try to fit in
And there are times to be you. Just surrounded by the right people and environment

YANBU at all.

You aren’t wrong to ask those questions. It’s a fine line.

It is important that home be as free of masking as possible though. Our household does operate a bit like an alien planet. We have never used the same social rules that the rest of society uses because frankly they are mostly ridiculous. However, we have also taught our ASD child those rules and that they have to be followed outside of the house.

if you ever watched the Big Bang Theory, you will get the joke, “it’s a non-optional social convention”. We use that one frequently.

You can only do your best and you may find that there are meltdowns. I have worked with teenagers with a diagnosis and it's not easy but there are lots of helpful resources. Have a look at the Jessica Kingsley website. They have a lot of books for parents but also workbooks for young people - social skills, social cues, navigating relationships etc.
I was knocked unconscious at a wedding by a teenager with ASD. The parents ignored me and explained loudly to everyone that he was Autistic, as if that was all that needed to be said. Obviously I can't confirm this because I was unconscious at the time. They acted as though nothing had happened even as I was being taken away in the ambulance. No check to see how I was. Nothing. Please don't be these parents

My DS (44) wasn't diagnosed with ASD until his early thirties, and is high-functioning in most respects (what used to be called Aspergers) so wasn't given any special accommodation as a child for unacceptable behaviour. As an adult, he clearly struggles in a lot of areas, particularly around routines like handling money and interacting with other people at the various jobs he's had. All these autistic children are going to grow up to be autistic adults, and if they hope to live independently they have to function in the real world. I think they need to have those life skills regardless of how they behave at home. The problem with accepting autistic behaviour is that it isn't just going to be them at home with you beyond a few years - most of their life they have to function outside the home unless they are profoundly disabled.

My brother is on the asd spectrum. As are 3 sets of friends sons, now all young adults.

All are well mannered and socially apt.

Although their neurodiversity is evident very quickly on meeting, they have all be taught social expectations and manners.

I would say… if it has a detrimental effect on others, it is not ok (violence, personal space, touching, other people’s things).
verbal rudeness and inappropriate questions ate borderline.

YANBU, but neither is your DH.

Highlighting that what is acceptable in a ND home isn’t going to be acceptable out amount NT people/society is a good way to teach social skills. This isn’t really masking in my opinion, so much as learning how to navigate.

Your DH is also NBU about you sounding old fashioned when you put things in terms of drawing a line between “encouraging him not to mask, to feel free to be himself etc, vs not validating being demanding, uncompromising, rude, lazy etc.” because you’re literally saying that being autistic is being demanding, uncompromising, rude and lazy unless you are masking…..and that is a very old fashioned and ableist view. That’s the only way your statement makes sense in my opinion. So I think he is right to say that. In my opinion, there is no line. That anything that requires masking should be avoided as much as possible because masking causes cumulative damage to the mental health of the ND person. Eg. Autistic person has sensory issues with certain foods but is told they are being demanding and rude by refusing to eat anything that is at a family BBQ or other social event and told they should respect so and so went to efforts and eat the damn food anyway. This is not good, an autistic persons sensory issues should be respected as they are not preferences. Sensory issues activate the same sensors in the brain as when you feel pain. It doesn’t feel like pain, but the reaction of flight and avoid is the same as you get with pain, there is no just get over it and don’t be so demanding and fussy. So autistic people choking down food they have sensory issues with is one form of masking…masking is to be avoided and people need to respect the autism.

The “learn to respect others and me” goes both ways.

Yanbu, you may have the tolerance, understanding and patience and that isn't owed to him by anyone else. It would be the best thing for him to understand that.

We have built a strong expectation of kindness and tolerance in our home.

When we have an issue, we start by checking where the sensory overwhelm is, because 90% of the time that’s a huge factor.

Defusing and dealing with the problem is obviously urgent, but after that, we take time to understand where everyone is coming from.

And after that, when everyone is cool and calm (maybe even a day or two later) we work on repairing relationships. I think this is key.

It’s not a quick fix- it’s a long term process of understanding ourselves, our needs, each others needs and the effects of our actions.

It’s definitely not a one way system - there’s no right or wrong, just difference, and NTs are as maddening and frustrating for NDs as vice versa. But everyone is important and we’re trying to accommodate everyone’s needs.

It doesn't extend beyond the late teen years
Once out in the world and workplace I've found it's less tolerated

Meltdowns,quirks, are not readily accepted from what I've seen

Teens that have ASD that cannot physically control themselves cannot mask their behaviour away. Those are cases where they really should have a parent or other minder by their side to ensure they are not harming other people. That’s horrible how people are getting knocked unconscious at weddings or their children beaten up at school- completely unacceptable.

The vast majority of young autistic children can be taught to modify/stop violent behaviour, but this isn’t masking it is really more how autism means they are chronologically a bit behind their peers so it takes longer for then to learn appropriate behaviour.

I agree with this. Strangers will not know they are autistic so if possible discouraging any sort of touching or invasion of space, violent or otherwise, should be paramount.

Things like sensory issues or speaking very directly to those they know, not so much.

It is better to focus on the reasons behind the behaviour rather than focussing on the reaction. So, for lots of autistic people dysregulation is caused by being trapped in an uncomfortable situation that they lack the autonomy or authority to remove themselves from.
If we focussed on an autism affirming approach, in which autistic people were trusted and allowed to advocate for themselves, flashpoints would reduce, and everyone would be happier!
You're using a false binary: autism affirming does not equal ignoring dysregulation, but does mean proactive adaptations being made to support people who need it.

When ds got his diagnosis (aged 13yo) his immediate reaction was "great now I have an excuse..."
I said to him "no. you don't have an excuse, you now know you have to work in different ways."
He actually took this on board and it's been good for him.

Which is all very well but it comes at a cost. Home does need to be a place where masking is minimised but yes, the people in it need to be treated respectfully.

OP suggest you have a good think about what "respectful " looks like to you - and what it looks like to your ds. And where pressure can be taken off (the less pressure he's under the more likely he'll be able to cope with your demands ). I have to ask myself 'does it matter" a lot. Some things really are hills to die on, an awful lot aren't.

If he has PDA then encouraging him to stop masking will inadvertently backfire. He needs to accept he is autistic and be comfortable enough around you to not need to mask, without feeling he needs to not mask or else he will avoid doing so.

Being autistic doesn’t excuse bad behaviour.

That works both ways though. If an autistic person isn't shown tolerance, understanding or patience why on earth would they accomodate your needs?

There is a lot on this thread about the need of people with asd to adapt, with very little recognition that they do this all the freaking time and need spaces where they can be autistic. That might involve not talking, or not spending time on the phone to granny, or not say thank you for things they don't like and didn't want in the first place.