to think college are being obstructive and awkward?

[blinkybell]

This is so frustrating

DD has some SEN and a couple of disabilities.

She’s currently coming to the end of a 2 year level 2 diploma at college and is hoping to move onto level 3 from September.

All through primary and secondary school she was very, very well supported. The first half of her first year at college she was also well supported. However, her teacher left around Easter time and from then on it all went to shit.

They ignore everything I say as they are “encouraging independent learning” so they have no risk assessment, no emergency plan, they ignore all her needs and constantly threaten to remove her due to her low attendance (her attendance is low because of her disabilities that they are not supporting) but despite that, she is doing very well in her diploma course.

Following advice from SENDiass, I applied for an EHCNA in September 2022. Originally we were turned down on the basis that college hadn’t supplied enough information. We went for mediation - college supplied the same information again, however we had lots of additional reports from CAMHS, Paediatrics, etc, so the original No was overturned before we even had the mediation meeting.

EHCP was granted and we’re now at the draft stage.

Draft is great, however, there is a lot of stuff in there that are “nice to haves” rather than necessities and are actually already being covered by other services - CCAMHS, disability-related support groups, she will be referred on to appropriate adult mental health services when she’s 18.

As a result, I emailed college to ask for a meeting so we could go through the plan and work out what we needed, what was missing and what was unnecessary so we could make our response to the LA.

They refused. They then emailed to say they had responded to the LA. I asked if they could share their response with me, as, per my previous email, maybe stuff they had issues with could be solved with a conversation with me. They refused.

I’ve since spoken with the LA Caseworker and now know what the issues are - exactly the ‘nice to haves’ that I had asked to discuss with college in the first bloody place.

The caseworker mentioned that she’d invited the college to be involved in writing the plan - they refused. She’s asked for a meeting - they refused. We have an online hub where we’re all supposed to upload documents, reports and responses - they refuse to use it.

Is this normal? Should we be working together here or are my expectations off? College said they were supportive of my EHCNA application at the time, but their actions tell a very different story.

We’re now in a kind of stand off and I have no idea what happens next. The LA caseworker is actually super helpful and have reassured us that there are lots of options available to DD so not to panic, but it’s so bloody frustrating.

I thought about complaining to Ofsted actually, is that an option?

Unfortunately, this college is the only place in our area that do the diploma-type courses in the area she wants to do.

Thanks!

Are you sure the draft is great. That would be unusual for a first draft. Is it detailed, specified and quantified? With no woolly of vague wording such as “access to”, “would benefit from” “or equivalent” “regular”, “e.g.”, “opportunities for”…

there is a lot of stuff in there that are “nice to haves” rather than necessities and are actually already being covered by other services - CCAMHS, disability-related support groups, she will be referred on to appropriate adult mental health services when she’s 18.

These should be in the EHCP. They aren’t ‘nice to haves’. Anything that educates or trains, including therapies e.g. MH therapies, should be in F. If CAMHS, adult MH services, support groups stopped providing that support without the SEP being detailed, specified and quantified it isn’t enforceable.

Some of the things you mention are normal. If you want a copy of the college’s communication DD can submit a SAR. Complaining to Ofsted about the college’s behaviour during the EHCP process is pointless imo, it is the LA with the duty to assess, draft, finalise the EHCP.

Well, maybe not great, but ok for a first draft.

Lots of the areas are clear - outcome, provision and what has been allocated

However, there are some areas that DD is just not interested - eg, encouragement to access local support groups - 1-1 with a mentor for an hour a week - she already accesses local support groups and college say they can’t meet need here.

Provision in EHCPs should be based on needs, not what the placement can provide or normally provides.

College wouldn’t have to provide that provision, it could be provided via a personal budget.

Does DD require support to access the local support groups currently? If so, then it is correct that it is included. Provision in EHCPs is taken from the reports undertaken during the EHCNA, so it must have come from somewhere.

It came from a report that CAMHS submitted where they talked about the provision they provide, the support groups open to her and the provision for her post 18

This has all been agreed and she’s already had some settling in sessions with CAMHS and the post 18 providers.

She doesn’t have any issues accessing the support groups - she attends various meet ups, days out, etc. She attends them independently

Her EP report was done by a locum EP over the phone and the LA caseworker used that to write the draft plan.

Thanks!

The problem seems to be the reports then. If DD attends the groups independently why is CAMHS recommending she has 1:1 support to attend?

Provision provided by CAMHS that educates or trains should be in F thought. Same for adult MH services, support groups and things like OT and SALT etc.

Yes, the reports seem to be muddying the waters a little bit.

CAMHS wrote a report detailing DD’s needs (mental health support, accessing support groups) and then detailed how they were meeting those needs now and how they would be met in the future post 18.

The LA used a locum EP and it was all done over the phone/via reports and questionnaires and has included those needs without detailing those needs are already met through other provision.

The LA caseworker wrote the plan based on the EP report.

College are saying they can’t meet need regarding mental health provision as that’s been included on the EHCP - as well as support attending support groups there’s also CBT (already had through CAMHS), work on self esteem and accepting her disabilities (again, already done/doing elsewhere)

DD has a network of therapists, counsellors and support groups she knows and trusts and wouldn’t engage with anything the college provided anyway.

Her relationship with college has broken down pretty much - she doesn’t trust them, doesn’t feel they acknowledge or understand her disabilities, doesn’t feel supported or safe so she just wants to get the qualifications she needs to move on and get out of there as quick as she can.

If there was anywhere else she could do the courses she needs, she’d have been long gone.

Thanks!

If you haven’t already it is worth reading about EHCPs as I think you are slightly confused as to what should happen.

All provision DD reasonably requires must be included in the EHCP regardless of whether it is already being provided by someone. It is absolutely right therapies, CBT, support groups and work on self esteem and accepting her disabilities are in the EHCP. That does not mean the provision must be provided by the college. It just means DD is legally entitled to it and it is enforceable. At the moment it isn’t.

and has included those needs without detailing those needs are already met through other provision.

This is what the EP should be doing, whether provision is already in place via another means or not.

If the relationship has irrevocably broken down and there isn’t an alternative within travelling distance can it be undertaken via EOTAS.

I've never been involved with this process, so may be miles off track, but college seem to have an issue with the stuff you don't need them to supply.
So, can the EHCP not state what is to be supplied through already established routes, and then "stuff college explicitly need to be doing".
I'm not clear what this is - ground floor time-tabling, breaks using classes, regular food opportunities, purple paper, a reader...... Whatever you want them to be doing be put in as "College to provide..."

Thanks!

I think the issue is, that the draft plan has named the college to provide it - it hasn’t named the other providers so college have come back and said, they don’t want to be named as the education setting as they won’t be able to meet needs - sorry, my fault, I thought I’d included it in my OP but it was so long I cut some bits out.

I’ve attached a screenshot of the provision bit for support accessing support groups.

There’s a whole load of other stuff on there as well, such as 1-1 provision once a week with an LSA to encourage her to widen her social circle. DD doesn’t want stuff like that on there at all, doesn’t agree there’s a need and wouldn’t engage with it anyway. She’s nearly 18, so up to her.

Unfortunately her course is a practical course and needs to be done at college. Although, there are other pathways - she can do an online access to higher education course funded by the LA if it comes to it, but she would rather continue with the diploma as it’s more relevant for her.

So the provision for accessing support groups itself should remain but the who amending.

Unless the college is wholly independent they can be named against their will. Nothing you have posted would meet the threshold for the LA refusing to name the college if that is DD’s preference.

I've never been involved with this process, so may be miles off track, but college seem to have an issue with the stuff you don't need them to supply.

Yes, that’s basically it. We seem to be making a whole big ass mountain out of a molehill. The LA are dealing with it, but my main gripe with them is their complete refusal to engage with me in anyway.

There’s lots of stuff on the EHCP that DD just doesn’t want on there.

I kind of hoped we could work together on it.

Ask for this to be moved to SN section for some proper advice. You really need to make yourself more savvy re what you should be fighting for. You fight LA to get the EHCP reasonable, to include all 'nice to haves ' as essentials. Then you fight college to implement it. College sounds shit. Is it really worth keeping her somewhere who clearly don't want to do anything at all to help her?