To feel annoyed about child benefit threshold?

[Mirenda]

I earn not far over the threshold to claim child benefit so am not going to put in any claim.

Maybe it seems completely unreasonable to many but given the large amount I pay in tax and NI every year, I feel annoyed that we get nothing back for this, especially with costs of absolutely everything going up.

If we could claim it, we would use it to fund baby related groceries or the heating bill in winter, both of which can be quite expensive.

I don't understand why the threshold can't be more towards 100k mark like the childcare costs threshold as once you're into six figure salaries that's a different ball game (although those people also pay hefty amounts of tax so why shouldn't they see something for it too?)

I expect to be slated for daring to question any of this as someone who earns a comfortable amount but when you've put into the system over the years, it would be nice to get more back when it's for your child.

I have a very wealthy elderly relative who still received the government's pensioner cost of living payment last year regardless of her massive income. They didn't means test that but they will set limits and thresholds for benefits for children rather than make it more universal.

None of the tax thresholds have changed in years and this is just one of these examples.
We are all being taxed senseless and getting what in return? While everything costs more and more from the post tax income.

Did you see the thread about a family wanting to come off benefits but wondering what job they could get 5k take home pay as that’s what they’d need to find their lifestyle.

meanwhile we are all paying for that

Agree with you. It's so bloody annoying.
move just stopped claiming it as finally over it.
my ex has 50/50 shared care and is retired though so I've spoken to tax line and he could claim instead so he does (and then we put it in savings).

I do fully think that this is one the most divisive things in working class though. I've always fully supported benefits (and grew up on them!), but the way lower earners behave over you complaining about losing some child benefit has made me think screw anyone in that bracket that needs me to complain to MPs etc. it's a fullyndivide and conquer scheme by government I think.

It’s not means tested as such though it is paid to anyone who claims and it’s the responsibility of the claimant to pay back if they are over limit. There are some spot checks where they match things up through their computer system. They could potentially do the same for winter fuel allowance but pensioners vote

If you earn not far over the threshold it's very easy to just increase your pension contributions to bring your taxable pay back under.

It's vital for ensuring that vulnerable children don't suffer that the process for claiming this benefit is very very simple. If there was any kind of detailed declaration of household setup needed which might make a few comfortably-off middle class families who are currently excluded get included because of their particular situation, would disproportionately impact some desperately poor families who will simply not apply if any such declarations are needed. That's why it was a universal benefit for so long - not because the wealthy needed it but because means-testing doesn't just exclude the wealthy and vulnerable children are the most important factor.

If there has to be a threshold then linking it to higher rate tax is the sensible way to achieve this as it is a simple way to ensure that only the families who are nowhere near poverty will get excluded. No system is perfect and there will always be cases near the borderline where their specific circumstances might on a personal level seem to be a reasonable case for the rule being imperfect but we are not seeking, and could never achieve, a perfect set of rules with no flaws. The important thing is to ensure that the kids who lose out due to the inevitable imperfections in the setup are not the most vulnerable in society, but are those who will somehow be actually ok on the whole despite their families having a little bit less.

I wonder why, as a person who has no children, I can't take out anything from the put I put into. I'm sure many others in my position feel the same

And that's why it was originally a universal benefit. So the middle classes felt invested in the system, not pissed off about more handouts.

The conservatives always change things to remove middle class entitlement for exactly this reason

YABU. We need to change our thinking about tax and this idea that we expect something back from it. It's not a savings scheme! Taxes pay for the NHS, education, security, transport infrastructure, defence, social services, benefits, etc etc, that benefit everyone. People shouldn't be greedy and expect more than that. We certainly shouldn't be expecting "cash back" - perhaps we've grown too accustomed to banks/supermarket loyalty schemes!

You mentioned a wealthy relative still getting state pension, (well done for that elderly dig) but it didn't occur to you if you paid more in to your pension you could have it both.

OP has said she could do with the payment to help with groceries for dc and heating in the winter. That doesn't sound to me like someone who can afford to start paying more into a pensio

We get Scottish Child Payment which helps us out. But I hear you. It's really not great, many are struggling these days.

This.

When some use food banks this household want more!

Do you not get free healthcare?
Did you not receive free primary and secondary level schooling?
If you became disabled you would recite e benefits.
If your income dropped you would be entitled to things like free prescriptions and dental.
If you’re a pensioner you get a winter fuel allowance.

There are lots that child free people can ‘take out’ from the system.

Labour did the same with tax credits, when my son was born at the end of the last labour government we could claim a small amount of tax credit even through our income is way way above the limit now. It means there’s isn’t a them and us situation. Now it’s very much a case of divide and conquer used, setting people against each other to defect from the true situation

YABU
You earn over 60k.
That is a massive salary (we were comfortable, pre covid, with DH on 55k, I now earn 20k and we are extremely comfortable).
There has to be a limit somewhere, and tapering between 50 and 60k is it.

Stuff more into pension or loose it.

FWIW, I agree with it being based on a single income is less than ideal.

Its a strange benefit. The threshold seems to penalise single parents trying to house and feed their children by thenselves.

I agree. They haven’t changed the earning thresholds for 10 years which is wrong. Plus a family with two parents earning 30k each take home more than one person on 60k. Yet they keep their child benefit. It should be based on household income and the threshold increased to 70- 80k, which in 2023 is probably the equivalent of 50- 60k in 2013.

Register for CB but you can opt out of payments. That way your ni during ml and any future void periods is protected and dc is allocated an ni number.

if youre earning too much for CB by definition you're well paying enough NI

I think it should be on household income, it's very unfair to single parents or families where only one parent works.

That's extremely disingenuous, if you actually read that thread you would have seen that there was three adults looking to work to realise that £5000 per month household income, and it included the cost of childcare for two toddlers in the £5000 needed. The poster was just interested in the type of jobs that could realise that monthly figure.

People on MN are so short sighted- they can say poor you boo-hoo but in accepting this crap, and the awful way it is calculated (individual not household income)- is the governments way of phasing it out altogether and plays nicely into the narrative your children your problem.!

The issue is because taxation is independent since the 70s the government has no clue or any way in their system to calculate and check household income only individual income. They only know household income where someone has filled in an application for other benefits

The higher earner may be financially controlling. The lower earner/stay at home parent was at least guaranteed an income every month. When the new rules came in I felt it was very unfair for that reason.

This is a good point re the cost of means testing. I suspect it's to do with attracting the grey vote. People go on about the entitlement of youth but I have to say, in my experience I hear the most entitled views from older people re having paid in for years and so they should get x y and z back when actually most of them would never have paid in anywhere near enough over their lives to cover what they've had back from the state (working class background, not high incomes). I personally think winter fuel and cost of living not being means tested for pensioners is ridiculous. Not all pensioners are struggling and if it wasn't paid across the board there would be more in the pot to help those who are at risk of death each year through not having enough to heat and eat.

In terms of child benefit, it's always been mad to me that its not per household. If it can be means tested to any person over x amount in a household, why not combined in a household? I think a 100k combined cap would be fair (and a lower cap than the childcare one which is any person in the household being over 100k - again, it should be household not individual as you could have a huge combined income and still qualify).

Personally I think child benefit should be for everyone given its actually for the child but I can see why means testing was introduced. Too many people using it for savings for their kids not for essentials therefore not actually needed. However you could argue that by saving for kids, it benefits the state later. I know the savings I am making for my kids will go towards things like uni, house etc meaning less chance they will be reliant on the state. Similarly I pay extra into my pension every year which yes, reduces my tax but at the same time means I'm alot less likely to rely on state funding in old age, including care costs.

I have a friend who has very rich parents. She bought a £700k house cash a few yrs ago and her kids go to private school. However because her husbands only works part time and shes not working, they still get child benefits.