Page 2 | Men with a hero complex

Sh4rkAttack · 2023-05-20T23:00:10+00:00

I know I am ... hoping for ideas on how to be a bit less chippy. I am in a walking group,and for the most part really enjoy it and have met some lovely people. But some of the men take it upon themselves to 'help' the women whenever there is a stream to cross, a bit of scrambling or even a stile. They'll position themselves (in the way) ready to grab us if we fall, and issue instructions about where to put our feet and hands. Today I was grabbed by the arm while reaching around for a handhold and pulled up a rocky section we were negotiating. This pisses me off no end, and I can't help myself from making a snippy comment when I am given unwanted help and advice. To be clear, I have no issue with a quick offer of help, but I do expect my 'I'm fine thanks' to be accepted without hesitation. It's the ones who hover anyway 'just in case', or who don't even ask if the help is wanted in the first place that put my back up. I find it incredibly sexist and patronising, and have no intention of just putting up with it, but I would like to be able to respond in a way that makes the point with good humour... so how would you handle this?

Parisj · 21/05/2023 07:45

The next few times get there first or last. Offer them a hand, if you are first. Or if you are last, insist 'after you'.

tiggergoesbounce · 21/05/2023 07:54

Why does it need to be in good humour if it is annoying you?

You dont need to say passive-aggressive things or things in good humour.
Before you set off for your next walk and you are all grouped together, just gather everyone around and say i know you mean well, but this is making me very uncomfortable. Please can you go on ahead - I'll ask if I need help (another posters quote, which i think is perfect). If they still do it, call them again at the start of the next walk and do the same.

They may then take a step back from you.

Parisj · 21/05/2023 07:57

To shift your chippy feeling. What I would do. First remember they are OK. Their behaviour has a range of causes and motivations. And remember you are OK. You have your own wishes. Their world view is different to yours. You can live with that and it's not your responsibility to change their behaviour. It is your responsibility to assert your own boundaries wants and needs, and choose how to interact with people in groups. I like the pause and 'would you stand back please' or 'I will make my own way' with warm eye contact and friendliness. Or appeal to their 'chivalry' with 'would you be so kind as to allow me to traverse this myself please / stand out of my way please?' Its assertive firm but friendly, no annoyance shown, resists their power play but doesn't aim to demean or reject. Transactional analysis type psychology.

Greenable · 21/05/2023 07:59

I’m clumsy and not very agile so I don’t mind it when they hover. What I don’t like is when they insist I should lean on them on a tricky bit instead of slowly working my way up leaning on solid rock or ground. And if someone takes my arm it’s very destabilising. I think men sometimes overestimate the difference in muscle strength between us and assume we are a lot weaker than we are.

Bk1000 · 21/05/2023 08:11

yanbu last year I was running a really technical trail race and ended up running a lot of it with a man who kept trying to ‘help’ me on the scrambles/bogs etc. after a few time so asked him if he would be offering his hand if I were a man and he admitted he wouldn’t and did stop doing it after that. The intention was kind and it is just social conditioning, men have spent their whole lives being told that they should ‘help’ women by holding doors, offering them a hand etc so I think some just do it automatically. It’s definitely fine to make it clear that you don’t want help though and this man should respect that.

wafflyversatile · 21/05/2023 09:55

Parisj · 21/05/2023 07:57

To shift your chippy feeling. What I would do. First remember they are OK. Their behaviour has a range of causes and motivations. And remember you are OK. You have your own wishes. Their world view is different to yours. You can live with that and it's not your responsibility to change their behaviour. It is your responsibility to assert your own boundaries wants and needs, and choose how to interact with people in groups. I like the pause and 'would you stand back please' or 'I will make my own way' with warm eye contact and friendliness. Or appeal to their 'chivalry' with 'would you be so kind as to allow me to traverse this myself please / stand out of my way please?' Its assertive firm but friendly, no annoyance shown, resists their power play but doesn't aim to demean or reject. Transactional analysis type psychology.

This is the correct answer.

But if that doesn't work do my way and start trying to help them.

Original poster

Sh4rkAttack · 21/05/2023 11:25

notsayingmuch · 21/05/2023 07:27

I think I would say something about wanting the physical challenge and that I need to do it myself to build muscle and balance. You could ask one that isn't so annoying to 'spot' you ie watch without intervening unless disaster actually strikes!

Why on earth would I pretend that I need to build muscle and balance, or that crossing a stream is a 'physical challenge'? And then ask someone for unwanted spotting? I have no problem asking for help if I want it, or providing help when needed / wanted (in fact, when a woman did slip and was hanging off a narrow path calling for help yesterday it was me that got to her first and pulled her back up) - but no way am I going to ask for help just make a man feel important.

OP posts:

weaselwords · 21/05/2023 11:40

Physical mansplaining perfectly describes it.

Ive had one be quite huffy with me when I said I was fine moving some large display boards and yank it off me. I thought better of him, to be honest. Very disappointing. Doesn’t make me want to let him “help” me and stop saying “No thank you”.

midgemadgemodge · 21/05/2023 11:45

I'd be furious if someone grabbed my arm! That's absolutely not on

A sharp what the hell do you think you are doing was called for

Original poster

Sh4rkAttack · 21/05/2023 11:53

wafflyversatile · 21/05/2023 09:55

This is the correct answer.

But if that doesn't work do my way and start trying to help them.

Show quote history

I agree with this. Both parts. I think at the moment my demeanour is more stroppy teenager than friendly and assertive adult, so this is useful.
I am aware that the men probably are doing what they have been brought up to do. And many of the women seem to like it. I can't imagine that addressing the whole group would do anything other than mark me out as difficult or stroppy - and it would also make it hard to ever ask for help if I do want it.
I will also start offering help on tricky sections - there was a particularly difficult rocky traverse on yesterday's walk... the man in front of me asked if I was ok and then left me to it when I said I was - all good. I then noticed that, while I continued on, this man lingered to offer similar support to the next person (can't actually remember whether they were male or female), and it did make me wonder why it hadn't occurred to me to this. We are all conditioned to behave in particular ways I guess... but this thread has definitely helped me see how I might gently subvert this.

OP posts:

Original poster

Sh4rkAttack · 21/05/2023 11:58

Physical mansplaining perfectly describes it.
It absolutely does. I had it on a stream crossing yesterday - our hero standing in the middle of the stream directing me where I should put my feet... I told him in no uncertain terms that I could see what to do and could he please get out of my way... but do wish I had said 'gosh, thank you - I would never have noticed that large flat rock if there hadn't been a man here to point it out to me'.

OP posts:

OneLittleFinger · 21/05/2023 12:10

I'd just not move until they got out my way.

TheHoover · 21/05/2023 12:30

Big smile + ‘I think I can manage’, ignore the hand/arm and push past making them realise they are in your way.
Don’t go on the offensive at first; they possibly think they are being chivalrous and are not intending to cause offence; more like holding a door open for you than imposing their physical superiority. But obv ramp it up if they don’t get the mesage

DerekFaker · 21/05/2023 12:43

notsayingmuch · 21/05/2023 07:27

I think I would say something about wanting the physical challenge and that I need to do it myself to build muscle and balance. You could ask one that isn't so annoying to 'spot' you ie watch without intervening unless disaster actually strikes!

That's still giving them the imprression that their 'assistance' is needed though, and that she's not as capable as them.

EbonyRaven · 21/05/2023 13:01

Sh4rkAttack · 21/05/2023 11:25

Why on earth would I pretend that I need to build muscle and balance, or that crossing a stream is a 'physical challenge'? And then ask someone for unwanted spotting? I have no problem asking for help if I want it, or providing help when needed / wanted (in fact, when a woman did slip and was hanging off a narrow path calling for help yesterday it was me that got to her first and pulled her back up) - but no way am I going to ask for help just make a man feel important.

Show quote history

Agree with you here @Sh4rkAttack you should not have to 'pretend' anything. And although (as a few posters have said,) there's no harm in being polite, unfortunately some men do not respond to this, and will still keep doing what they want. They need telling in a firm manner. And if that means he gets arsey and doesn't want to speak to you. Result!

I find the 'men trying to help women when the help is not asked for' thing SO infuriating and exasperating! When we are out, my DH offers to carry everything, and pack all the shopping, and arranges stuff in the trolley himself, when we get food shopping together - as if I'm not capable. 😠I say 'I do do the food shop on my own 4 out of 5 times you know... how on earth do I cope without your big manly help?!' he is like ???

Funnily enough, his 'big manly help' doesn't extend to the housework and domestic chores very often.

I even get annoyed when my DH says 'after you..........!' when we are outside walking, and the pathway narrows. Every. Single. Time. 'After yooooooou......' and he gestures with his hand to 'allow' me to go first. I think 'I will go first if I want to. I DON'T need your permission! ' I know daft, and irrational, but it irks me!

But yeah YANBU. Men trying to do stuff for women when it's not asked for is incredibly annoying. From what you say about the hero man in your situation OP, you need to be sarcy and rude.

IglesiasPiggl · 21/05/2023 13:04

I would say "I'm all good thanks" and swing my leg over the stile. If they are still in my pathway, I guess they won't be next time! Their "help" probably comes from a good place but I'm sure it's annoying after a while.

littleburn · 21/05/2023 13:04

Urgh that would boil my piss too OP. Especially the physical manhandling. Surely 'well intentioned' men understand you don't touch someone without their permission, unless they're in immediate danger. Particularly a member of the opposite sex.

I agree with the 'you're in my way, could you please stand back' response. It's factual, without being chippy or prioritising soothing the male ego.

CandidaAlbicans2 · 21/05/2023 17:45

I know what you mean@Sh4rkAttack, I've met a few men like that too and I find it so patronising. They also tend to refer to us as "ladeees", like we're all one homologous group who need rescuing by knights on shining armour like them. It's as though they assume I'm incapable, when in fact I'm very experienced and capable, and haven't needed their help. I suspect, as it's mainly men in their retirement years, that they've been brought up to be "gentlemen" and chivalrous, but it doesn't make it any less irritating.