Sleep training 8 month old - yes? No?

[TheBerry]

My boy is 8 months old and has always been rubbish at naps - although pretty good at night sleeping (he often goes 7pm to 6am now).

He’s a very alert baby, and even when he was a few days old the first thing everybody said when they met him was “he’s very alert, isn’t he”. I think this is one reason he’s so resistant to naps. I’ve also made a rod of my own back by consistently breastfeeding him to sleep. Once he’s dozed off I’ll just lie him down in my lap; he’ll normally stir after 30 minutes, but then I can just jiggle my legs to get him back off to sleep. This way, I can often make him nap for an hour or more, but it also means I have literally no baby-free time to get anything done. I’m also worried about how on earth the nursery staff will get him to nap when we send him to nursery in a few months!

So, I’ve started trying to sleep train him a bit. Basically, putting him in his cot for naps and then leaving the room for 10 minutes or so. When I come back in I’ll pat him for a bit, then leave again. Eventually, he does go off to sleep, but he cries the entire time beforehand (could be over an hour), even when I’m patting him.

This afternoon he was screaming so much throughout the patting / leaving room cycle that I thought he’d choke. He finally fell asleep while I was patting him, but even as he was sleeping he was still making little sobbing noises, as he’d got into such a state.

I hate it, I feel neglectful and awful. Should I stop, or continue? Will he learn to sleep by himself eventually anyway? Will I traumatise him by sleep training him in this way?

Also, he rarely sleeps more than 45 minutes this way, since I’m not there to instantly rock him back to sleep, so he’s overtired and whingey all day.

YABU - stop sleep training, go back to feeding him to sleep. He’ll grow out of it eventually and become an independent sleeper. It’s fine and natural. Sleep training could cause emotional problems.

YANBU - keep sleep training. He’s old enough and he won’t develop a complex from it since you’re going back in every 10 minutes.

YABU. Far too young for sleep training and yes, crying for an hour without comfort is going to damage him. He sleeps all night, this is really unusual uhder 1 so count your lucky stars and be there for him when he needs you in the day.

Also, he rarely sleeps more than 45 minutes this way, since I’m not there to instantly rock him back to sleep, so he’s overtired and whingey all day.

This is just normal. Not all babies nap for huge chunks of time and I find they don't really do longer naps until they go down to 1.

Bare in mind your baby is getting a lot of sleep overnight so won't have the same sleep needs during the day as some others might.

Personally I think every baby stage is just a case of 'can't have it all'.
He sleeps almost 12 hours overnight so you get baby free time in the evening.
He will likely sleep for longer when he goes down to 1 nap in a few months. Until then its just a case of riding it out. Maybe opt for more pram naps so you can sit and have a coffee out while he sleeps.

Will he nap in a pushchair? Neither of mine have ever managed to nap in a cot and they would be really distressed if I tried but they would both nap in the pushchair. I just rock it back and forth in the porch for 5 minutes until they drift off then I can leave them there whilst I sit on mumsnet potter about the house.

I’m not one of those “never let them cry” parents but an hour being so upset is too long imo.

His night sleep sounds fabulous so you’re obviously doing something right!

Even though I go back in every 10 minutes and stroke him? It seems like all other babies his age that I know are not only sleeping through the night but having independent naps of like 1.5 hours at least twice a day!

I can literally count on one hand the number of babies I know who aren’t napping well and sleeping through the night.

Don’t worry about nursery naps, they just do nursery magic. And peer pressure!

Could you introduce a little nap routine: shut the curtains, fresh nappy, sleeping bag, short book, feed to sleep and transfer to cot like you’re putting down dynamite. We did this with DD around 10 months and she was fine – I did it on our bed with her at first but she’d roll away and I realised she didn’t need me there, it was my anxiety that she wouldn’t sleep that made me think I had to stay. Try it. Enjoy your freedom, even if it’s only 45 mins at first.

How many babies do you know?
No offence but this just sounds like bullshit. So either you're hearing what you want to hear or these people aren't your friends as they aren't being honest.
Most babies certainly aren't sleeping for 12 hours at night with no wakeups and having multiple long 1.5 hr naps.
Basically none of the breastfed babies in my antenatal group were sleeping through the night at 8 months.
Your expectations of babies are off.

Leaving him for ten minutes is too long, you need to go at a much slower pace with sleep training.

I have tried this! The thing is, he starts napping while feeding and then by the time he’s finished feeding and I put him down he’ll only sleep for perhaps another 20 minutes or so. And it can’t be a great quality of sleep since he’s being hauled from boob to cot.

Every baby from my NCT group is like this! They have all slept through the night for a while, apart from one who was still having one night feed for a while.

And they all nap well, apart from one who needs to nap in the pram. One of them sometimes wakes up from a nap but then self-settles - with my boy would never do in a million years.

I met one mum on a walk whose baby was waking up like 5 times a night and that’s the only horror story I’ve heard (in real life).

Weirdly people lie so much about this stuff! I was told this by my nct group at a similar age when my eldest was waking every 45 minutes all night and only napped in 45 stints on me.

Months later it transpired that half of them were exaggerating. I don't know why, maybe to avoid all the unrequested advice people like to give when you mention you've got a poor sleeper, or maybe because having a good sleeper sometimes seems to equate with being a good parent.

The mums I met when had my second were much more honest and it was great to know I wasn't alone.

I'd kill for what you have with my youngest and he's almost 3 🤣. Still up many times a night, not napped since he was 18mo and even then it was 30 mins once a day. There are lots of us out there who don't have these perfect sleep situations.

Thank you, that’s really interesting to hear.

I honestly thought my boy was just doing really badly compared to all other babies his age!

I honestly can’t imagine that the mums I know are lying, they all seem so nice, so maybe it’s just a weird fluke.

When my boy has a long nap or two, his mood is so much better throughout the day. That’s what makes me think I need to get him napping consistently - I’m worried it’ll affect his development or cognitive ability or something if he’s not sleeping enough.

Idk I’m a big worrier generally and have found motherhood brutally hard. I’m with the perinatal mental health team, constantly second guessing myself, neglecting household chores, barely eating some days, feeling too exhausted to play with my baby (goodness knows why, I get at least 7 hours of sleep a night), just being generally a pretty hopeless human being at the moment!

Hopefully it’ll improve.

Sorry you are having a tough time. I can relate to a lot of this myself. If its any consolation both mine have been appalling sleepers and the eldest especially was always tired and grumpy. She's in nursery class at school now and according to her teacher she's way ahead of what's expected in all areas so it hasn't had an impact so far. They're both doing well and it's only me who has suffered 😆.

You are doing great, it does get easier eventually. Tbh the 4-9 month but was a complete slog for me. I was always too tired to anything but from 9/12m I felt like I got a bit more back as they slowly started to pick up language and interact in new ways.

Sleeping "through the night" is usually what adults mean by their baby sleeping through the hours that they themselves as adults are asleep, eg 11pm-6.30am, so they don't have to get up with the baby. It doesn't usually mean 7pm-7am. You're setting the bar too high. Don't beat yourself up. Xx

Thank you everyone. This has really helped. I’m going to stop the sleep training - which I feel good about because I hate seeing my boy cry! Back to feeding to sleep - I’ll have him nap on me sometimes, and see his lovely big smile when he wakes up after a long nap, and sometimes I’ll put him down in his cot.

Seems as though comparatively he’s actually doing pretty well in the sleep stakes. I had unrealistic expectations, I think.

I know that in the eyes of MN we oldies knew nothing but both of my breast fed babies were sleeping through the night long before 8 months!

😮😮 7pm-6am at 8 moths is AMAZING. nap or no nap, You are living the dream.