She got the job! (Teacher related)

[Newbie198]

I started a thread about thinking it a bit off that a teacher wasn’t told by their manager about the HoD job.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4800689-to-think-this-is-off-interest-in-opinions-of-teachers

She got an interview, and was successful! So is now Head of Dept from September.

I’ve been a teacher for 30 years, though not in mainstream, hence me asking experienced teachers’ opinions of mainstream etiquette. I did however personally notice quickly how talented she was, in my opinion at least, from talking shop all the time (as teachers do!)

The thread turned into more of a debate about ECTs thinking they are ready for progression when they’re not.

This ECT (have clarified since after reading responses on original thread) did actually implement strategies to improve results, analysed data and identified areas of weakness and ran targeted workshops, improved schemes of work, linked her subject to other areas of the curriculum by liaising with colleagues, dealt with parental enquiries on a regular basis, improved results following a two year A level cycle, had several excellent observations amongst other responsibilities that yes, would often fall to a HoD.

The Head and the rest of the panel (SLT) was impressed with her contribution to school life, her knowledge and vision for the dept, her hard work and impact so far, and really thought she was worth investing in. It was a robust process, all day, with an analysing data element, a lesson, student panel, and interview. There were 5 candidates.

I’ve known many many teachers in my career. Some experienced and not particularly effective, some experienced and incredible. Some new and not fit for the job, some new and exceptionally talented. Some of you teachers may well know that feeling when you know you’re dealing with someone who has this ‘x factor’

Anyway, my AIBU has changed.

Can some less experienced teachers have that dedication, knowledge, expertise and that bit of magic to go all the way? With support of course, which the best schools would offer.

I inadvertently started a side issue of men thinking they can progress quicker. I’m sorry I said the teacher was a he. I thought teacher might be on mumsnet so thought a minor detail change would not identify me. It opened a can of worms. Teacher is female and my niece.

This is really not a brag about my niece, at least I hope it doesn’t come across that way, although of course I am thrilled for her. I was just surprised at the amount of comments thinking it laughable that a newer teacher could ever be deluded enough to think she has what it takes.

Would be really interested in your thoughts

Honestly I still think the same. I think there's too many people with barely a couple of years in the classroom taking on leadership posts like HoD, something that has become more common as there's a retention crisis and experienced staff are leaving. In the vast majority of cases I don't think accelerating people through leadership is good for schools or pupils.

@LolaSmiles no that’s a fair comment. After 30 years experience I understand this too.
You say in the vast majority of cases, maybe there’s always that one…
Thanks for your thoughts, I find it an interesting debate 😊

I am a very experienced teacher. It can go either way and depends on personality and intelligence. Some younger teachers can be good managers but generally I think age helps. I don't think it's great to have a manager under thirty.

The flip side that also bothers me is that placing bright young things into leadership is more than just being a good teacher. It's all the other skills that come with it. When so many SLTs are 5 minutes out of training themselves or have only ever worked in their MAT, how equipped are they to support inexperienced middle leaders? It's also probably easier to dump stuff on ambitious new teachers, and even easier if there's a lot of flattery involved.

I don't think it's a coincidence that schools are haemorrhaging experienced teachers and the age/levels of people in leadership is decreasing.

A HoD needs to have skills and experience to run a happily valued and respected department...of that and ECT has none unless they have had experience in a previous career and are therefore a "mature" ECT.

All good points.
My two best managers by far were both very much older and experienced ( when I was in my 20s)
Had a manager who was a disaster (she was in her early 30s)
Of course, personality had lots to do with it.
I do need to watch she isn’t taken advantage of, although school seem very supportive. It is easy to be taken advantage of, I realise this.
Small dept of only one other staff member so maybe a good place to start.
I shall watch with (concerned) interest

I've experienced disastrous promotions (in education), of "bright young things" who can produce sparkly schemes of work and number crunch data with confidence, but who are completely ineffective with the management of people.

After many, many years of teaching, the best leaders I've worked with have been the older, experienced ones. They have more understanding of human nature and how to get the best from people. The younger "all singing all dancing" leaders often alienate people with their "innovative" ideas (which often did the rounds 10/15 years previously), and less confidence or experience to challenge some of the latest fads in education.

I would be very wary of a teacher with 2 years experience promoted to HOD or senior leadership. There are so many scenarios with parents/curriculum/ students that they will never have had experience with, and will therefore lack the ability to fully support their team.

One of our ECTs (2nd year) will be a HOD next year. She is amazing!

I'm going to stick with my original theory that the current HOD knew your friend was suitable but had a friend wanting the job so didn't want your friend to apply.

You see @towriteyoumustlive I am with you for this particular teacher. Young teachers, the right ones, can be amazing. An asset to the school, their team and most importantly their students.

My niece isn’t about sparkly schemes of work or gimmicks, she’s known me long enough to know the attitudes of us oldies to that. She is driven by the students and how to make her subject, which she is absolutely passionate about, work for them.

There is only one other teacher in her dept, not a massive team. She was a supervisor in her ‘Uni job’ (shop, up to 8 on shift) and was respected. She’s just got that kind of personality.

As an older teacher, I do have the resistance to ‘bright young things’, but are we biased sometimes.

I only know that I am 1000000 + times better as a leader & people manager doing it 15+ years into my career than I was at 4 years in.

I wish your niece well. If she can fully reflect on her skills and where her experience may be lacking, I’m sure she’ll do really well.