AIBU - With this new data on obesity and the NHS is it time to have some honest and difficult conversations?

[IAmADancer]

New data from a ‘landmark study’ has show that obesity costs the NHS around 14billion a year and that 2 out of 3 adults are obese.

I know this is a difficult subject but the numbers are pretty clear. With the cost of living crisis and a general requirement for both parents to work now to support themselves how do we support people to make the right choices and tackle a growing problem?

Im really interested to hear people’s opinions on what we can do with such stark figures laid bare.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/17/cost-of-obesity-twice-those-who-are-healthy-nhs/

15 minute cities are part of the answer, or at least a reduction of car dependency.

Living in one is the only reason I am not more overweight, I cycle absolutely everywhere.

How is anyone else going to obese because of medications I take? I don't understand?

There's a lot more government can do at a policy level. Make it cheaper to eat non ultraprocessed food. Make it easier for us to be active. They won't tackle it as like someone already pointed out, a lot of our economy are based on us consuming processed food from the food industry and spending leisure hours being non active consuming entertainment from the entertaining industries.

That's not exactly how it has worked out in America, is it?!

And this is what reporters never say.

Yes obesity id related to ill health but you don't just eat yourself into obesity and then get ill, often it is a combination of things.

And if you can't move much then that impacts on your fitness and can impact on your choice of food. If you can't chop and peel veg your options are limited.

And then if you are unable to move much, you can't cook and you can't work where do you get pleasure? A take away and a bottle of wine with a Netflix series my be your only entertainment.

It was like when Katie Price put on weight to prove fat people are lazy - she was able to work out, buy the best food and wasn't taking any drugs.

If she'd been fed steroids and not allowed to exercise she would not have lost the weight so easily.

Then we have the problem of people who do not have cars accessing food shopping, often it is a choice of taking a cab, at least for the return journey or buying from the local shop.

But was is 'healthy food'? For decades we have been told fat is the culprit, but more recently we know it to be sugar and wheat. Refined sugar and man-made wheat are massively underpinning the capitalist economy and making some people a lot of money (wheat sets the price of other grains which then set the price of meat and other foods). Some apples are nearly 20% sugar and then you have fruit juice - high in sugar but low in fibre etc. And so-called healthy breakfast cereals which are loaded with sugar.

The government's 'Eat Well' plate is making people fat! There is a lot of money to be made from getting people addicted to sugar.

Interesting article from someone who advocates more fat and less sugar (although granted, there will be many other experts saying the opposite). Having previously lost 2 stone on a low carb/high fat diet, I think we need to adopt a low carbohydrate/ultra low refined sugar and more good fats approach to eating.

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/51/24/1730

When we asked Dr Harcombe if the Eatwell Guide could help with weight loss, she said:
'Not at all. In 1972 in the UK, 2.7% of men and women were obese. By 1999, these figures had risen to 22.6% for men and 25.8% for women — almost a tenfold increase in fewer than than decades. The dietary guidelines to eat less fat and more carbohydrate (the plate is a representation of these) were introduced in the UK in 1983. Was it a coincidence that obesity exploded during this time? And diabetes? This plate is driving us to consume 60-70% of our diet in the form of things that granny used to know made us fat: bread, potatoes, pasta, rice, cereals etc. This plate demonises the most nutritious and satiating foods (meat, eggs, dairy products — even oily fish is limited, when we need it daily for vitamin D).'

Bread is gorgeous though. I just bought some Tesco three cheese bread and olive bread, it's fucking lush. I'd rather be slightly overweight than never eat bread or pasta again. The French and Italians are quite a bit less obese than us and don't dodge the carbs.

I don’t understand it either. Then when are you talking so much about your very specific issues? (Which sound tough)

Oh fantastic. You managed to both fat shame and be ableist all in two lines. Well done.

Exactly how is it the "responsibility" of a person who is DISABLED and has limited mobility / ability to exercise, who retsricts their calarie intake and eats healthily, but who MUST take drugs that cause weight gain?????

Your attitude is the one that is ridiculous, and frankly, very offensive.

But you are one person and whilst there will be some in the same boat, a huge cause of obesity is over eating.

@dumple
Your breakfast of bread and snacks of fruit are not good choices at all.

mmmm bread. that does sound lush

What should I be eating then?

You've seen one breakfast and one snack. You haven't seen the salad for lunch, and dinner, the cucumbers and carrots that are for snacks in the afternoon or the boiled egg that will be tomorrow breakfast. For example.

Yes there’s a lot of government or food manufacturers need to fix this for me on here but it has to come from the individual first, to make different choices.

It can all work together but the person has to lead on their own eating.

In other pp the idea of a high tax on sugar / fats could work although I’d ask which section of society are you taxing and what will it do to their behaviour.

Eg a packet of biscuits goes from say £1 to £4 will they still buy them and remove other things they previously could buy. Will that impact on income make them more able to lose weight or not

I suppose if you look at smoking and the lengths we’ve gone to - a packet of biscuits would be behind a shelf, in white label packs, taxed out of lower end income reach

I think when they say 'easy' they mean that the solution is straightforward, all you need to do is eat healthy food and exercise more, one might also say to an alcoholic that all they need to do is stop drinking. Easy to say but very very difficult to do because there is addiction, compulsion. The food industry pours vast resources into producing food that we cannot resist, specifically engineered to make it as compelling as possible.
All animals have to be hardwired to gorge themselves on the most highly palatable foods that they come across, otherwise no species would survive, this means that when we are surrounded in all directions with ultra processed food which has been designed in a lab to make it as compelling as possible it's very hard for us to control ourselves.
On the subject of exercise, again animals have to be hard-wired to conserve energy because for most of our evolution the conditions that shaped us meant that we had to conserve energy because food was always in limited supply. We have a natural aversion to physical exertion!
back in the days when most people had to do physically hard jobs that aversion was overridden because of the need to earn a living, this is no longer the case for most people. If we are to exercise then exercise needs to be accessible and enjoyable.

Having previously lost 2 stone on a low carb/high fat diet, I think we need to adopt a low carbohydrate/ultra low refined sugar and more good fats approach to eating.

Yeah, so have I but a low carb diet will always ultimately fail as life is full of delicious carbs and it's completely unrealistic for most people not to have them. Also carbs are just all put in the same boat and demonised when in fact many provide us with vital fibre and energy.

I listened to a podcast from a scientist about ultraprocessed food. Our bread today are ultraprocessed. It's not real bread. I don't know about the french and italians. Maybe they still get real bread. He said just look on the packaging and ingredient lists.

My radical solution is to move to most people working a three day week. And to go back to a culture where kids play in their neighbourhoods with their mates rather than parents ferrying them around in cars to 'activities'.

So many of our problems, obesity, unsustainable living, are due to peole being so bloody busy. If people had more time for hobbies, activities, socialisation, gardening, mending things we would all be happier and healthier. Kids playing free would be happier, more resilience, better mental health, and with happier parents who have the time and energy to spend quality time with them and help them with whatever problems they do have.

So yeah, I think we need a wholescale rethink of society. But I do think a three day working week would be a massive step in building a better society.

They dodge refined carbs though. The mediterranean diet is about 50% carbs / 200 grams carbs daily but very little white bread/white pasta. And very litte refined sugar.

This, alongside lack of active travel opportunities and teaching schoolchildren how to cook from scratch is the issue.

In some places it's impossible to eat healthily and within a reasonable budget.

I would be interested to understand how much of the low carb benefit is actually low ultra processed food benefit ? Most bread for example is ultra processed

Observation:
It's fascinating seeing which cars have to drive to the exact school gates. And what people who don't do this drive.

Likewise see the supermarket carpark and who parks closest to the door and who will park the other side of the car park as it's always much emptier and then walk across the car park.

We noted the SUVs and premium brand cars park in a different place to the unfashionable and smaller cars...

There is a cultural thing in here, not just an economic one. It's about attitudes and that is having an impact on weight.

I agree. I know too many people who have similar stories, yet are lumped into the general obese population - and are constantly told to just eat less and move more, and like I’ve said, if it was that bloody easy obesity wouldn’t be an issue.

You can’t discuss a societal issue and exclude some because they’re not doing obesity in the right way to be included.

I don't think your situation is what the article is referring to (and I imagine you know this).

Ive been doing a lot of reading around this issue the last 6 months. I firmly believe it is a result of ultra processed food and changing eating habits which mean we are constantly digesting food in a fed state compared to 60 years ago when ultra processed food didnt exist and we ate more whole foods and less snacking. Ultra processed foods are cheap and addicitive, they can cause blood sugar spikes and insulin resistence which leads your body to store more fat and crave more food regularly never feeling satieted. I started intermittant fasting in January after years of yo yo dieting and its changed my life. Ive lost a stone. I dont crave food constantly, i dont get jittery when i havent eaten for a couple of hours now, and im giving my body a rest from digesting for a good period daily from 6pm to 11-13.00pm the next day. If you're interested in learning more i recommend Gin stephens fast feast repeat, Jason Fung the obesity code and diabetes code and prof Tim Spektor.