Would you let your 10yo travel to Istanbul for the Champions League final?

[Bluemoonmother]

DS's dad will want to take him to the game. I know children do travel to these matches but I'm nervous about it. He's been to UK matches but travelling to Turkey for such a high stakes match concerns me. I want him to be safe. AIBU?

If you do not trust his father to take care of him then he should not be staying with him at all.

If you trust his father to take care of him then of course he should go.

You do know there are mums on the German/French/Italian version of Mumsnet questioning whether their children should go to England for a match because of our hooligan problem?

Chill out Green Street. This is a showcase Champions League final in a country with good security and who will want to make a good impression with the eyes of the world on them. Weirdly enough a team loses the final every year and we don't see this orgy of violence you're predicting.

When? If it clashes with the second round of elections, I’d say no.

Yes I would definitely let him go.
I've been to derby matches in Istanbul and never felt worried.
There will be a huge police/security operation especially after what happened in Paris.
I would be surprised if English and Italian fans have any contact .

If your DS is keen to go then yes I would let him

This is assuming DS's Dad is a normal football fan and has no history of hooliganism (I have a feeling you'd have mentioned it in the OP if he did)

My main concern would be that it could be an extremely long night! Liverpool won the Champions League there in 2005, game went to extra time, and penalties. With the time difference, it was 10pm local time before the match started, almost 1am when it finished, and it took however long to get all the people out and away.

The election is May 28, the match is June 10.

You do know there are mums on the German/French/Italian version of Mumsnet questioning whether their children should go to England for a match because of our hooligan problem?

Well that would be expected, given the reputation of English football fans. I go to matches and can't remember the last time I saw a fight, but it is understandable that people worry given the history.

I wouldn't, OP, but not because it is Istanbul. The last Champions league final (in Paris) was horrendous. Fans were seriously endangered by the ticketing problems, poor crowd control planning and poor policing. It wasn't even a near-miss situation - many ticket-holding fans were tear gassed on the way in, and others were assaulted as they were leaving. It was a matter of luck (or perhaps the memories of Liverpool fans) that meant there wasn't a fatal crush as well. I wouldn't trust UEFA to have sorted all the problems for this year, as they were reluctant to even admit they were at fault. I'd want to see at least two finals occur without incident before I'd consider taking a 10yo.

@LadyJ2023 fertilising an egg doesn't make someone a good person or parent.

@Bluemoonmother No, I wouldn't, not with a Dad that hasn't taken him away before & you don't trust.

people have said it's a once in a lifetime opportunity - it's really not. I wouldn't go to Turkey for any reason at the moment, let alone to a highly charge event.

tell his Dad he can bring him home some souvenirs & you'll take DS to a pub or have some mates around or something.

far too much risk in Istanbul, with a Dad who isn't the greatest for a timid 10 year old.

If you do not trust his father to take care of him then he should not be staying with him at all

yeah, there's no difference having him overnight at his house at the weekend and taking him overseas to see a football match with huge crowds. Nope none at all

If you trust his father to take care of him then of course he should go. She's already said she doesn't.

You do know there are mums on the German/French/Italian version of Mumsnet questioning whether their children should go to England for a match because of our hooligan problem?

Yes, and....????

I don't blame them & it's utterly irrelevant to the OP's decision.

Yes. With his Dad.

At matches where there is any potential for violence, (most matches everywhere, I suppose), the authorities are at great pains to separate opposing fans and there are usually areas where the ‘ordinary’ fans are seated, as opposed to the diehard fans of each team, who are usually behind the goals.

I think an international match in Istanbul will be very carefully policed and organised. They will be keen to avoid similar chaos to that which occurred in Paris last year (caused by over-zealous French police, actually, rather than fans). Nothing in life is risk-free, but the chances of anything awful happening are very slim, imo.

I went with family to a local derby match in Budapest with some trepidation, admittedly, but it was absolutely fine. Great atmosphere. Lots of families with children, to my surprise, with the ‘ultras’ completely corralled. Most people at football matches in whichever country are not out to cause trouble.

Sorry but I do not agree with any of your points.

I'm in Italy and my husband runs a football fan "group".

He has always been shocked when we're in the UK at how the truth about English football "hooligans" has been distorted abroad.

Here, even the fans of the equivalent of 24th division Little Wapping in the Mud v Tiny Village in the Arse End of Beyond have to be kept separate and escorted by the police to and from their respective areas. Away teams' fans are banned from lots of certain fixtures on a weekly basis. When Feyernoord fans trashed a fountain in Rome a couple of years ago DH commented "but they never comment when our clubs do the same abroad do they?"

Inter isn't the worst known club for violent fans. That would go to Rome and Lazio (with hefty sprinkling of racism in the case of the latter) but to imply that Italian football fans are all saints who go quietly back to their hotel after a match is stretching it.

Returning to the OP, Turkey isn't somewhere I'd go morally for any reason tbh, but given police brutality tactics plus hooligan risks, my concern would be two innocent people caught in the crossfire.

That's oK, I don't need YOUR approval of MY opinion.🤷🏻‍♀️

🤣🤣🤣No

if I fully trusted the dad and felt he could act responsibly at all times, yeah, but it doesn’t sound like you do

Don’t have a particular issue with Istanbul though, is a great city. It’s more about it being abroad and not knowing how local police would deal with any difficulties.

Good point

What?

I was merely pointing out that they're hosting the final between English and Italian teams, in response to comments about violence by Turkish fans. For e.g. the Galatasaray/Leeds incident is not necessarily relevant here.

Also - no, not really? Are we saying that if Wembley were to host Bayern Munich v PSG that English hooliganism is a factor?

Returning to the OP, Turkey isn't somewhere I'd go morally for any reason tbh

Morally? Do you mean for political reasons to do with their government?

Other countries could say the same thing about the UK though and the way it's governed, for instance a country that is morally corrupt that treats its citizens like a piece of shit so just like you, it would be morally wrong to go to any sporting event hosted in the UK. But most people aren't bigots like you so they won't think like that about the UK.

I think it would depend on when the match will take place. My daughter lives in Istanbul and has generally been happy there although has become increasingly concerned by the level or racism in the city, particularly towards people from Arab countries and The UK. . She still felt safe living there until the few days leading up to the election when there were some really disturbing racist attacks and expatriates were advised to stay indoors. Until the election has concluded, I would be concerned about visiting Istanbul if you're British. My daughter is married to a Jordanian, and as a very fair skinned British Muslim she is particularly vulnerable.

I've been living in Turkey for over 10 years. It will be absolutely fine. Turks are very loving towards children. I find it difficult when I come back to the UK with how my kids are treated in comparison. Istanbul is where I live and it is fine.

No, and I’m usually the biggest eye roller when people ask questions about kids and football. Not sure why people think Turkish hooliganism don’t have a go at city fans. I wouldn’t and I’m a massive football fan with kids.

@AllIwantforChristmas22 I’ve travelled all over Europe to attend big matches over the past 20 years. How many have you been to?

By your logic, I shouldn’t go on the tube incase there’s a suicide bomber because I can’t control other people 🤷🏻‍♀️