To be upset about ‘university blind’ recruitment

[Newname576]

DS has overcome so many challenges and has an unconditional offer from Cambridge after achieving 4 A star last year. He has worked so hard and we are so proud of him! But I was upset to learn that so many companies are recruiting “university blind”now - what the hell is the point of going to a top Uni if no one will know about it! My younger child says she will apply to Manchester Met and have a ball even though she too is predicted stellar grades as there is no point going to a top Uni

AIBU to be sad that companies are recruiting blind?

wow....so Oxbridge uni's take the vast majority of their students from private schools. In effect you are asking for the privilege of money to afford these children better jobs. Frankly that is appalling. As if the Tories are not exploiting the working class sufficiently, this thread just emphasises that belief that money means 'entitled'.

Also, stellar academic ability does not always translate into success in the workplace.

My firm recruits university-blind and have people on the graduate scheme from many different universities. The ones from Oxbridge often stand out academically, but actually the ones who do better in the workplace / get promoted faster tend to be from the mid-ranking universities. I don’t think traditional academic universities necessarily give the best prep for being in situations where it’s not about academics / intellect, but more about competent delivery of things that should be within the grasp of most reasonably intelligent people plus decent interpersonal skills.

I’m a Big 4 interviewer - I don’t even get the candidate’s full name until after we’ve made a decision. That said I’m still finding that those successful candidates who are white and middle class are often from top unis (probably because they apply in greater number for the summer internships). But there is a much broader range than there was 10 years ago.

The headache that I’ve found is that many candidates who have not had to jump through certain exam hurdles (so not academic ability in general but that experience of rote learning for time pressures exams) are then unable to pass the professional exams required. So it is definitely time to look at how professional qualifications are awarded too.

Having an incredibly intelligent lovely DS who has an unconditional place at Cambridge doesn’t seem like the most pressing of problems
Like he’ll do fine in life surely

This is complete and utter rubbish. Both Oxford and Cambridge have around 70% state school intake.

If you believe that Cambridge to cover more during a degree, to be one of the best universities, to be stretching your son further than other universities, that the degree is better quality, then he will surely have a better skill set when he applies for jobs. Ergo, nothing to worry about.

Otherwise, it proves that it's just a paper status.

YABVVU. And I say that as someone with a LSE degree.
University is not 'just' about the job. It's about the intellectual challenge, the broadening of the mind, which is noticeably different with the quality of the students.

Or maybe you're worried your precious baby can't compete?

I have news for you - you never stop grafting.

At uni, you still need to explore, do extracurriculars etc. And, once you get into the workplace, it's a different set of skills. How you work with people. How you position yourself. How brave, assertive, and how you get back up despite being knocked down.

I have interviewed many 'elite' grads who are unemployable because all they did was study. Many 'non-RG' who were brilliant. And my field needs more than average intellectual ability.

Sorry. There's no shortcut to success in life. An elite degree does open doors, but it's not a guarantee.

My DH has a first from Cambridge but a) he accidentally superglued his teeth together and now b) he has smashed a very expensive window by mowing the lawn.

Don’t even ask.

But…

…he is lovely and he has lovely friends and his Cambridge experience is something he’ll always remember with love and pride.

Don't make assumptions. The most woke university we went round was Leeds. DS went to Oxford and DD is currently there; neither believe TWAW, nor do most of their friends, but they just don't discuss it.

I'd be grateful it's blind, frankly.

If you have a child at private school, it's a disadvantage for Uni applications. I understand why (before the pile on) but at least yours is technically a level playing field.

And there are lots of other advantages of having been to Cambridge.

Great point

If you come out of three years at Cambridge without the skills or connections and know how to get a good job on application and interview without relying on “I’m a cambridge graduate don’t you know” then I’d not be impressed.

So why is a student who gets 4 A stars and goes to a different university any less talented?

Just hand the professional qualifications out to anyone who wants one, in the interests of inclusivity? I worked for mine. Not everyone met the standard - as it should be.

Or you could look at it as 7% of UK schools (private schools) make up 30% of Oxford and Cambridge's intake.

Jeez, lots of posters getting the wrong end of the stick here.

OP - nothing to be upset about. Your son will get a world-class education. I don’t think that many posters realise that Cambridge and Oxbridge produce fantastic graduates because they demand much more of students, particularly in humanities subjects. The tutorial system means that you write essay every week (sometimes more than one) and then get to discuss this with a top expert in the field as if you were equals. Students learn independence of thought, organisation, dialogue etc.

So even if applications are blind, the fact of the matter is that your son will still have had that experience which will be expressed in the way he interviews and in the quality of his application materials.

I think it’s a good thing 🤷‍♀️

if your child has a good degree from an institution which provides an excellent grounding in the subject, that will show on application/interview.

I went to a top uni for my subject. I was actively headhunted as employers know the quality of the course. Over the years it has become very obvious to me that the education I received was very different to others on the same course at different institutions. It shows. We weren’t just taught, we were taught to think.

so even if they don’t know the uni, the skills and knowledge acquired on a good course will stand in good stead.

so I wouldn’t worry too much.

Cross post @AbbaG12

I don’t disagree with the need to work for professional exams, but mine bore absolutely no resemblance to what I need to do for the job.

I really don’t need to rote learn a lot of arcane facts - I just need to be able to know where to find them quickly if I ever need them…

Adding a coursework element and / or open book exam format would be better for my specific qualification.

Blind recruitment is just a fad anyway that will probably be all over once your son graduates.

It will probably be something new, like lottery recruitment, where all the candiates are allocated balls in a big bag and drawn out at random.

Why anyone would want to make a decision based on less (yes less) information for one of the most costly processes you undergo in your business (the cost of recruitment failure is huge) is absolutely mystifying and the height of stupidity.

Some consultant somewhere is chuckling that people actually went for that one. Probably the same person who came up with concept of "hot desking"

As a recruiting manager, I have never looked at where someone earned their degree. I've only ever even checked if it is a role requirement.

It's fantastic that more companies aren't giving special treatment to certain universities.

Do you believe everything you read OP? Companies might spout this bollocks to appease people and appear inclusive but I'd bet my house that they look at where candidates went to uni.

One point you may not have considered, Liz Truss went to an Oxbridge University, the shortest serving PM in British history and she managed to f*ck up the economy more effectively than any other PM in history.

and to @shmivorytower

It really depends on the course tbh.

Traditional 'academic' courses like history, mathematics, physics etc are very similar. Exam based, no cheating. Of course, one could argue that perhaps the 'better' universities have more sophisticated questions but most jobs need a certain level of intellectual ability, after which soft skills are more important.

More, erm, 'vocational' courses are the ones were rigour is sometimes compromised.

In any case a prestigious degree still does open more doors, especially in the more niche jobs, and abroad, where academic prestige is still valued.

I just don't think anybody who moans about competition is going to be happy when they realise what the world of work actually requires...

17% of A level students (ie uni applicants) are privately educated, which is the relevant figure. https://www.economist.com/britain/2023/03/11/state-school-admissions-are-rising-at-oxford-and-cambridge