To expect school to let DD use a laptop?

[bushandflo]

DD clearly has some kind of issue, she brings home her school books and rips out pages and has to rewrite them or redo them and has done since she started year 7 (she is year 9 now) I didn't think too much of it at the time because she would always say she didn't like that she had to scribble and rush and wanted to just get the chance to redo it and found it relaxing and good for her to go over stuff. Her art teacher actually got annoyed at her about it because he said it's a rule that they don't restart their art and he can tell she has because her art book is so thin.

To be honest, she isn't able to stay on top of it now and is ripping pages out and sometimes not even redoing the work, so I've told her to just leave them in there then and she's like "I don't want to" and that's that. Teachers then being confused because they saw her doing work in class, etc but when they go to mark there's nothing.

I feel things would just be much better if she could type? But school have said they can't just say ok to that without valid reasons. I'm not even sure why DD is doing this, she's really vague and not open about her thoughts and feelings at all

Is this happening in all subjects? I'd it's just English subjects which rely on writing then it could be linked to writing fluency. If it's across all subjects then it's likely to be perfectionism driven by anxiety.

I would imagine that she doesn't want to talk about it because she can't articulate what is making her do this and she feels deep down that it's unhealthy but doesn't want to confront the issue.

She would benefit from an appointment with a school psych or a counsellor id you don't have a school psych. Ideally, she probably needs a Wisc or a WJ Cog to see how she's performing on a range of learning domains. She also probably needs a wide ranging anxiety assessment to understand whether anxiety is present in any other areas. I'd it's anxiety then she might benefit from understanding anxiety, learning about the thoughts underpinning the anxiety and challenging the thoughts and getting comfortable with being messy through exposure and reassurance from teachers that she is not being marked on appearance. Good luck.

I agree with others who are suggesting this is a perfectionism/anxiety behaviour. When I've taught children who've struggled with having 'messy' or 'wrong' work in exercise books, I've provided them with folders and loose-leaf paper. It's meant they've been able to file/separate the pieces they are happy with from those they want to redo/dislike rather than destroying them. On the whole, this has been enough to help the child 'park' the work they don't like and to move on. It has resulted in lots of paper being used, and lots of false starts but somehow the knowledge that the 'wrong' work could be identified as being a draft/first attempt etc. was useful. It has also meant I've been able to see how much has been produced and look at where I can help with stumbling blocks.

Maybe speak to the school about her having a folder with paper in that is lined, plain and squared for each lesson. She can do the work on paper and if happy stick it into the appropriate book or see if she can have a loose leaf file for each subject, if not happy just get another piece of paper. Encourage her to keep everything she does and maybe have some time to explain to you or the teacher what is wrong with it.

I did this at school too. Angry teachers would tell me off for needing a new book too soon and my mother would also be angry with me for wasting time rewriting things. I also found it hard to articulate why I did it and because I was often asked in an angry way why I tore pages out, I kind of worried I'd be shouted at for having stupid reasoning (which often did happen in when I went through school years ago)

I liked it looking nice and found it calming making it looking nice, when I was rewriting my work and making it look all neat I felt like I was able to absorb and process the info more and retain it, and because my pages looked nice, I liked flicking through them often and taking in even more info. Teachers would tell me not to focus on what the work looked like and it's the content that matters but that simply wasn't true for me, looking at a book full of messy rushed writing that I'd blindly copied without processing did nothing for belong the content sink in but I did the same with my own personal journal and sketchbooks if something like a spelling error couldn't be hidden totally.

I didn't know it then but like the people @minisoksmakehardwork works with, I'm autistic and have adhd but back then I believed I did this stuff because I was just simple and stupid as that's what id be called.

What year is she in? It might be a bit late in the year to get her tested and if she's in an exam year they might think you're pushing for a last minute access arrangement.

It's definitely an issue school should be aware of, could she change it so if she has to rip it out the original is handed to a trusted teacher?

Sounds like she does need additional support with this before it develops further.

I don’t think a laptop would help in this situation because it doesn’t seem like an issue where she isn’t keeping up in class, she wants her books to look neat.

Could it be an anxiety or OCD trait?

This does not sound like something a laptop would help with as it seems it would be too easy to delete her work from the laptop. I’d work with the teachers on finding a strategy, possibly writing it in her book and allowing the teacher to take a photo for evidence/marking before she is allowed to tear out the pages or working on paper to be handed in and them giving her extra paper to redo it for her book if she wishes. As it seems like it could be ocd/perfectionist/anxiety based this is the area she needs help with. I’d say a camhs referral but to be perfectly honest even if she was accepted for assessment you’d be waiting years with the current lists. As others have suggested this sort of behaviour can be quite common in girls who are autistic, does she show any other signs? If so ask school for a referral if it’s something you feel would be beneficial.

The more you explain, especially about the texts, makes this sound like an anxiety/OCD issue. I have no advice as to how, but this what you can hopefully get to the bottom of.

Hi OP, PPs are right that it looks on first sight like it might be anxiety or OCD. But the anxiety has to be triggered by something. And what ‘looks like OCD’ but is actually a very logical, if extreme, perfectionist behaviour is very likely to be a sign of autism in teenage girls- actual OCD isn’t as logical as ‘my writing is messy so I need to redo it perfectly.’If it is anxiety it could be triggered because she is struggling to keep up due to something like dysgraphia or ADHD.

I would make an appointment with her form tutor and the school senco to discuss the behaviour and ask for support in accessing referrals and assessments. That should probably include an assessment of her writing speed but not only that. I hope you get some helpful support.

Sounds like OCD, go to yr GP for a referral.

Hi @bushandflo
i just wanted to tag you because you need to read this. It sounds like OCD, my partners manifests in this way and it has completely ruined their life. The laptop will not help at all, because they will end up going over and over what they have written and find other things to obsess about. In someways it is worse on a PC because of the ease at which you can delete/restart things. I urge you to get some professional help ASAP. And have a serious conversation with her teachers about this. You really need their support with this and she needs very careful intervention.

You need to ask SENCO to test her if you think she would benefit from a laptop.

DD was assessed in Y9/Y10 at my insistence after other parents told me about extra time etc.

DD was found to be below average in several areas, especially on writing speed and phonological processing, so she was awarded 25% extra time for exams, and use of a laptop in lessons and exams.

That doesn't help much with her artwork though, as she is extremely slow and her teacher has to keep extending her deadlines.

It sounds like a perfectionist issue to me - which I recognise from myself.

Does she struggle with a "blank" piece of paper? Getting started on a piece of work? How is she in timed exams? I could do exams because adrenaline, but there were so many extra insert paragraphs with Greek letter labels to insert when I remembered something useful later on in the essay!

Does she prefer to work on a laptop because you can write any old junk to get started then edit into a decent piece of work with no sign of the mess it started as? Because as an adult that is my way to break through the fear of the blank page.

Having a "rough" jotter and a book for "proper" work might help. Not convinced on loose leaf as organising folders to perfection can be another big rabbit hole to get stuck in!