Or am I being DARVO’d

[DARVOHelpplease]

NC as too much info on here and I don’t want to be identified. I’ve seen lots of threads on MN about DARVO and have had feedback that this is what DH does.

I will do a quick and basic synopsis but what I’m after is whether this is DARVO response and what to do.

DH gets verbally aggressive if triggered. His hurt feelings overwhelm him so much he attacks - basically lays into me and tells me all the things he doesn’t like about me. Is then remorseful and says he didn’t mean any of it and it’s not true.

His verbal aggression is something I’m not willing to tolerate. Especially as he did it to DC recently. He says he doesn’t realise how angry he sounds. He gets completely dysregulated and then I do too and we row. It’s awful.

I recognise my part in it and am changing my responses but when he throw’s everything that he sees as wrong with me at me it’s really hard not to defend myself. I then join this tit for tat nonsense and I don’t like it.

So he has admitted he gets too angry and verbally aggressive and has sought a counsellor. He was very remorseful and ashamed when he realised. However…

He has now said that the conversation we had (where he was remorseful and sorry) left him depressed and that I didn’t listen enough to his feelings (it was a little one sided as I’d been trying to get him to hear the impact on me of his aggression for some time - each time he would get defensive and mud sling). I was a broken record until I felt he’d taken on board how hurtful it is and how those words stick.

Today he seems to be saying he is the injured party. It all started with me saying something that he perceived as negative about him (it wasn’t, I was actually berating myself out loud for something (first sign of madness etc!).

its more complicated that that but hopefully you get the gist.

So - is this DARVO? AIBU to have stuck to his problematic behaviour like a stick record? I did address my own (I can get bit picky but rarely do now and it’s been years since I was in that loop of frustration with his domestic input and then ‘nagging’ - things are more fair in that respect now).

If it is DARVO what is the most helpful response.

Thanks so much in advance to anyone that takes the time to reply.

Oh. And I’m ALWAYS the one that brokers peace.

Oh and by ‘for some time’ I mean six months, not just that argument.

It doesn't matter what it's called. He's aggressive and messes with yours and the children's heads and isn't willing to accept that it's wrong it nor make any to change things. Is this what you want for the rest of your life, and should you continue to leave the children to live in this atmosphere?

For me, the only choice would be to separate.

Hi, psychotherapist here. Was wondering if he has already been to see a counsellor? As if so, this could have prompted his later thoughts about the conversation.

As a therapist it is not our role to listen to the situation and say to the person 'you are in the wrong'. It is to try and help them understand how they feel so they can communicate that to another instead of lashing out. I am taking a huge leap here as he may not have spoken to the counsellor yet.... but if he has, it is likely that he has identified he feels a certain way and may now be trying to communicate that with you?

That is the nice guy edit.... from reading what you say about the way he interacts with you... I am not so sure the above is true as he seems to be really horrible about your character which is not acceptable. But the thing is, there is a real difference between miscommunication and someone being an evil gaslighting darvo tacticing human.

It is impossible to tell whether this is intentional DARVO or not without understanding him better. We all DARVO at some point or other unknowingly as we can sometimes feel like the injured party when our feelings are hurt (regardless of whether we are in the right or wrong).

If it was intentional DARVO, I wonder if the victim really has the power or responsibility to react in 'the perfect' way to try and control the situation? If it were me my gut feeling would be to recognise it is a toxic conversation and remove myself from it until the other person can communicate in a less triggered way.

DH gets verbally aggressive if triggered. His hurt feelings overwhelm him so much he attacks

I find the overuse of 'triggered' as a concept manipulative in itself. My feelings are my own responsibility, I feel like saying I was triggered by something or someone implies a lessening of my responsibility - I didn't just fly off the handle, I was triggered, therefore the trigger made it happen. My feelings overwhelmed me - they're my feelings, my responsibility, by saying they got the best of him it's distancing himself from the responsibility. His feelings did it, not him. It's a bit too close to men who assault or kill their wives using the wife's 'nagging' as a defence or mitigation - basically she drove me to it, so I'm not taking the blame. I'm guessing your DP doesn't get so 'triggered' by his boss at work asking him to do stuff or criticising him? Sorry OP, this doesn't sound a good way to live for any of you.

For the sake of your children please leave. They learn how to regulate from you both. If you stay they will turn out like him or end up with someone like him. Please OP. You don’t have to live like this.

Wtf is DARVO I can't find it anywhere on here?

What a total head fuck. There's the door close it on your way out mate. You do not need this rubbish and his pathetic excuses in your life. Do it for your dc, it'll become normal to them and the cycle carries on to fuck up another generation.

Thanks so much for your help all. I really do appreciate it.

I used the word triggered for ease. I have been clear with him that it’s not my job to regulate his emotions.

I plan to leave if things don’t change. He is aware that my view is that we need to separate for DC sake if we can’t change this. He says that’s a ‘cop out’ but I hold firm. I’m getting prepared for that eventuality. It’s tricky as if we seperate we would have to share the house until we sell. We don’t have enough income for me to rent somewhere and nowhere else to stay. I’m not quite sure how it would work. Starting to think about the options.

I don’t think his behaviour is intentional. He is very easily hurt. His childhood has left him with stuff. He hadn’t seen his counsellor yet. He’s booked in soon. When calm and congruent he fully accepts his behaviour has been problematic, is remorseful and can see the impact. He is often completely unaware that he’s even come across angry.

He is fully accepting of the need to change. Then if he feels hurt he shifts to the position of me being ‘the problem’ and the source of all that is negative. He uses blaming and critical language, globalises and goes back to things from 10 or more years ago. Like I said, I’ve been overly critical of him in the past in an unhelpful - but desperate - attempt to share the domestic load. I got very burnt out. He’s not lazy. Works hard but not in a collaborative way and often on things that don’t or won’t add value to our life. That’s a whole other thread about me letting go of resentment around that. He still sees me though that lens of overly criticaland misinterprets me often.

Good idea to just get up and go when the discussion becomes toxic. Although when I try that he tells me I am ‘shutting it down’ because I ‘can’t handle the truth’ - but then afterwards will admit that what he was saying was unfounded, exaggerated or unfair. I also get activated and have this sense of injustice and want to ‘put the record straight’ so I need to let go of that and just run the risk of him feeling vindicated and like he’s right if I don’t challenge it.

The only thing that currently works is if I say nothing about anything of any consequence. I feel anxious then because I’m walking on eggshells. It’s no way to live.

Whatabouteverything

It’s something I googled after it was mentioned this is what my DH is doing. Sorry. I know it’s an odd thread title but I was looking for posters that know more about it than me and I know they are on here from other threads.

You need to get your children out of there. What you fo in the meantime is raise your hand and say "stop, I am not having a discussion with you that is based on lies" you need to remind the scumbag exactly what he has done to you and your kids. But yeah, if you stay then I would essentially suck it up. No point in dragging it in and causing an atmosphere just let him believe what he wants.

finallygotospeaktoSky

I asked him to leave when he was really aggressive. He refused. Told me I’d have to be the one to leave. I said leave in an argument though so it wasn’t ideal. I do think though that it’s going to have to be me that calls time and leaves.

Also, just to be clear, the counsellor is so that he can explore why he gets so triggered by certain things. We know it’s childhood stuff but he needs that heard and held elsewhere. I can’t do it. I just need the behaviour to stop. I do think he genuinely wants to do the right thing but has massive difficulty regulating himself when that childhood pain comes up.

@DARVOHelpplease

This site may be resonate, also has useful tactics. Wishing you the best

https://www.choosingtherapy.com/darvo/

beetr00

Thanks. I’ll check that out.

The cycle continues. Your kids will grow up damaged and unable to regulate. On and on it goes.

“About 22% of victims heard an admission of guilt, but that was only temporary. In many cases, the perpetrator returned to DARVO techniques and denied and minimized the events.”

Whilst not domestic violence or even abuse may be, this resonates from the link. This is what has happened several times. I call out the behaviour (sometimes in anger, sometimes with care and empathy). Eventually he’s sorry and says he’ll work on it, then before I know it I’m the bad guy again because of some perceived criticism.

pillsthrillsandbellyache

I know and that’s why I’ll leave if it doesn’t change.

No you won't. All the shit you have taken, he finally admits he has issues and will seek counselling, but now he's twisted it so it's all your fault? It is intentional. 100% intentional. It will never change. I dont know how you can defend a man who has caused so much damage not just to you but your children. I wouldn't be able to look at him. He finally admits fault but then switches it. Nope.

Please leave this man now, not later. What you're describing is what I first experienced with my lunatic at the beginning of the relationship. I thought it was an ADHD thing but I know now that I was wrong.
Please believe that this is going to get worse. Read my past threads if you have to. He might not get as crazy as my ex but he will get worse.
He's testing the waters to see what he can get away with.

pillsthrillsandbellyache

I would appreciate it if you don’t tell me what I will and won’t do. You don’t know me and you don’t fully know my situation- just the bits I’ve posted. You also have no ability to accurately predict the future. I don’t have anywhere I can go. I’m getting my ducks in a row so that I can leave. I have a deadline.

Don’t be a dick

You are right. I am being a dick. Just sick of women and children having to live like this. Wrong time to take out the frustration. I apologise @DARVOHelpplease but please see your worth. He has worn you down. Just stop any nonsense about how it's all your fault in its tracks. Be firm and stay composed. Good luck.

I'm pleased to see that you're making plans to leave. I know that it doesn't happen overnight. One can't just up and leave especially with DCs involved.

Be prepared emotionally for if/when he starts grovelling or becomes hostile when he finds out that you're leaving him. Kind of make yourself a little script and try to stick to it when you tell him it's over.

He won't change.

His dcs probably won't want to see him again either.

I'd leave. It never gets better. Ever.