Would you retire to a Middle Eastern playground if you could?

[GiveUsThisDayOurDailyPizza]

For example UAE, Qatar

I will probably never be a high net worth individual anyway but even if I was I can’t imagine choosing to spend my retirement years in such places.

Work and live there for a few years to get ahead financially, yes, or a long layover on the way to somewhere else but what makes so many UK expats want to retire there?

This is prompted by something that came up at work. I’d love to understand the appeal as I have to interact with people for whom this is a long term ambition or plan.

So are the buildings in India, though.

Good weather? Over 40 C so you have to spend your whole day in air conditioned spaces?

Almost all of the recruiters, business owners, managers, supervisors of those workers are also from the Indian sub continent. That is one of the bigger issues in Qatar. That those hiring and overseeing the workers and running the operations come from countries with fewer human rights than Qatar has and they bring their values and beliefs to Qatar. Qatar has some recourses in place and has an infrastruture to deal and close and fine the businesses who don't follow the laws and has recourse for workers in those companies whose rights are violated however the implementation of that infrastructure has many issues.

Slave labour is illegal in Qatar and most ME countries.

I didn’t say who was responsible for it did I? I don’t care who employs these poor people. I care about the system and the cruelty.

My parents are from one of those countries and the appalling treatment towards those workers and the lack of rights for them means I won’t set foot in the relevant places in the Middle East.

If it’s too hot now it’s going to be the embodiment of hell by the time I retire.
Completely unsustainable and built on blood and oil.
Besides, don’t they kick you out at 60?

I think it would be too hot for me on a permanent basis. My ideal temperature is a constant 27, below is too cold, above too hot 😁.

There's lots of interesting archaeological places I'd really love to visit in the middle east though, but I'm not interested in living permanently anywhere described as a playground.

Appalling treatment of the most poor and vulnerable is a global issue. Not specific to the ME. Migrant workers in the USA aren't treated any better and they don't have access to public health care and education or a minimum saalry or living allowance as they do in Qatar. So I assume you would never go there either.

I assume you and your family would also never step foot back in the Indian sub continent either as the issues there are multiplied compared to the ME.

Most of Asia is out for you as well. South and Central America too and certainly the African continent.

Your view of the country, continent or region is biasing your view of the issue. The same issue in multiple regions is perceived differently, depending on your view of the the place.

Absolutely not. When you see the types who holiday or live in Dubai etc it’s incredibly off putting, lots of iffy new money types and the bling obsessed, that’s before you even consider the slave-like human rights abuses and treatment of certain women and gay people as well as the ecological issues.

It’s tacky AF too and the gaudy architecture and enormity of it all just screams everything wrong with wealth and those that seek it in todays society.

No

You are clearly brainwashed and defensive. I get it.

i am not sure why you don’t find the practice abhorrent but we are all different.

But I have no respect for wealthy westerners who choose to work and holiday in places like Dubai when they have other options. I can’t believe you are comparing that with Asians in the Uk visiting their elderly parents in the Indian subcontinent. Odd.

Yes it is the tackiest place on earth!! On a par with Vegas.

Ha i was waiting for some type of "brainwashed"

Btw UAE isn't just Dubai

I am not brainwashed. How much time have you actually spent in the ME? I have lived in a few countries. One thing living here has taught me is that when the same issue is perpetuated by Arabs or Muslims it is seen as ten times worse than when perpetuated by others. And people are not shy about voicing very strong negative views about those two people groups - much more so than others. There is a significant amount of racism and Islamophobia that goes along with many people's voiced concerns and view of the ME.

India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka are filled with human rights abuses. It is rampant there. You have priviledge there and are happy to ignore all the wrongs done in your own country since youf family lives a much better life than most. Where is your hatred for Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans and the Indian sub continent given how abhorrantly they treat their poor?

Exactly this in India you have groups like SIkhs and Muslims treated badly. There have been many incidents where people have been killed in India for eating beef by extremists. But you never hear people say "India is horrific I will not visit there." Problem here is people will pick and choose which country to go to some have to be deemed bad while others also with big issues are deemed fine.

A certain type of person chavs with lots of money like places like the UAE.

The same people who criticise Dubai never criticise India, Israel for human rights issues or violations. What sickens me is the pick and choose mentality.

This is the key. Many countries are trying to seek equality and have laws to help get us there. We know where we fall
down and it is legal to fight for, protest for and push for change and advancement of (currently) minority rights. Places like Dubai don’t even give a nod to equality and human rights and are literally built on a lack of it. Someone I know who lived there for years, saving up their tax and spending money on vacuous bottomless brunches, talked about the beauty and desirability of living on those man-made ‘fronds’. I look at that aerial view of the ‘fronds’ and a) it looks horrific and b) it encapsulates all the gluttonous capitalism that places like Dubai are built on. There is complete segregation between the ex pat community and the Arab population, and I would detest my only friends coming from a pool of people whose core values allow them to live there, guilt free.

They never think twice about going to the USA either. With their racism issues, police brutality, shootings, poor (and declining) abortion rights, death penalty...

People love to bash Muslims and Islamic culture. They don't think twice about it. Usually while knowing fuck all about it.

Exactly you can be forced to have a child with your rapist in some US states due to poor abortion laws. Innocent people are getting shot daily. But I rarely hear a boycott for USA. The same people who said they will boycott the World Cup 2022 Qatar will be the first one going to USA for World Cup 2026. It is full of hypocrisy.

I won't go there for exactly those reasons. Canada, yes.

Believe me, I don’t tolerate those either. And I was born and brought up here btw so don’t think of my parents’ home as ‘my country’.

i have been to Saudi twice as a teen. That’s all.

Those nations you describe can be indescribably cruel. And torture their poorest citizens. Where did you see that I condone that? This thread is about the westerner’s playground that is the Middle East.

Btw why do you describe yourself as an expat and not an immigrant?

I wouldn't consider holidaying there, so I certainly wouldn't retire there.

I have daughters so I would never expect them to visit me in a place where, if they started miscarrying and needed a D&C, they'd be viewed as criminals.

I have a neurodivergent DH so we'd never retire somewhere with such different cultural and social norms - it's taken him 40+ years to get his head around these UK ones!

I have a son so I'd not want him to be pressured to leave his partner at home to visit me if he's gay.

I am a woman so I would not willingly retire anywhere that might make life harder or riskier for myself.

Some of my old school friends moved out to Dubai with their year old daughter. They were already doing ok here - 4 bed detached home in nice area, professional jobs - so I just think "why"? Why willingly raise a child - a female child - somewhere she'll be inherently "less than?

Personally no, however I know people who love it, and one is saving for a house there and planning to go out there for good in 5 years time ,when they retire.

So are you willing to say that you have no respect for anyone who chooses to live or work or holiday in the Indian sub continent?

Expats are people who have moved to another country to work for a temporary period, immigrants are people permanently moving to another country. At least that is how the words are used in my experience.