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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell gazunderer to do one?

973 replies

Mustnotbeleftblank · 12/05/2023 08:19

Selling a probate property, due to exchange and complete today. Agreed price was £20k less than asking/previous purchase price and included all furniture. Ours was the show home apartment, and another was put on the market which is empty, much smaller and in a less favourable, dark and dingy aspect at £20k lower than our agreed price 🙄 this flat is with an EA who persistently undervalues these properties which is why I did not use them.

Received a call from our Estate Agents yesterday. Buyer still wants our apartment but now wants to pay the same as the cheaper, crappier one or he'll withdraw and buy the other apartment. I am properly pissed, but offer £10k off to get it past the line.

Buyer is firm, £20k less or he'll walk.

I think the buyer is trying their luck, the other property was marketed in March. I've seen the buyer at the building whilst clearing out the property, I know they've been to look at the other flat long before this week and I suspected that he would try something like this at the last minute. I am also confident it's our flat he wants, just at the crap flat's price.

I've made them wait for my response, and having slept on it I am of the mind to hold firm on the £10k drop, requiring immediate exchange to stop him dicking about, or deal's off. If he walks, I will still have the property to remarket as well as all the furniture the buyer wanted included in the sale which will cover fees to date, and he'll have taken the competing property off the market.

AIBU to not reduce further and wish them luck with the other property if they withdraw, or do I suck up losing £20k?

Selling a property in England sucks.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 15/05/2023 13:04

Iwasafool · 15/05/2023 12:55

The buyer is looking at paying for the OPs flat, it certainly must be identical to itself. It was worth X to the buyer a couple of months ago when the purchase was agreed, the market has changed and he thinks it is now worth X-20K. The OP might not agree and none of us know what it is really worth at the moment. It is the problem with purchasing a property taking months and markets can change.

Show quote history

Huh? You make no sense. The buyer is comparing to the worse flat:

“Buyer still wants our apartment but now wants to pay the same as the cheaper, crappier one or he'll withdraw and buy the other apartment”

Iwasafool · 15/05/2023 13:05

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/05/2023 12:59

Really, so not wanting to pay a previous price because the market has changed and you want to pay the correct price at point of paying rather than the price it was a couple of months ago isn't similar? Are you sure you read it?

It's nothing to do with market changes here, though. A smaller, less desirable flat has been on the market for the same amount of time, at a lower price and the buyer has apparently only just noticed this.

It's like me telling the supermarket that their 4-pinters of milk are clearly overpriced, 'proven' by the fact that their 2-pinters cost less (and always have)!

No it isn't, it's like saying I could manage with the 2 pints of milk so I don't think I want to pay 50p a pint for the big bottle when I can buy the smaller one for 40p a pint.

Again you seem to think that because the small flat has an asking price of £20k less than the previously agreed price for the OPs flat that is what it will sell for, it might sell for £40k less than the agreed price for the OPs flat.

People can actually advertise their property for whatever they like, it doesn't mean they will get it and I doubt this buyer will pay full asking price for the smaller flat.

Iwasafool · 15/05/2023 13:06

SheilaFentiman · 15/05/2023 13:04

Huh? You make no sense. The buyer is comparing to the worse flat:

“Buyer still wants our apartment but now wants to pay the same as the cheaper, crappier one or he'll withdraw and buy the other apartment”

Show quote history

Don't you think he plans to make a lower offer on the smaller flat? Is it likely that he has negotiated £20k off this flat, asking for another £20k off and he's just going to pay full asking price for the other flat?

Forget the other flat, just look at it as the market has been falling and he doesn't think it is worth the price that was agreed a couple of months ago.

GasPanic · 15/05/2023 13:07

SoupDragon · 15/05/2023 12:48

I suspect that they can't though. Otherwise it wouldn't annoy them and generate the angst. They would just shrug their shoulders and get on with it.

No one would just shrug their shoulders if their buyer started dicking about on the day of exchange and completion. What utter nonsense 😂😂

I would. Because I'm always willing to walk away from a potential deal happy if I don't achieve what I want to achieve. And that should be the case for anyone. Anyone with any sense that is.

The buyer clearly doesn't care on this occasion. And the seller wouldn't care either if they knew it was easy to obtain the price and timeline (same deal) they wanted in an alternative way.

In fact, if the buyer thought the seller was in a strong position they would never try to negotiate the price down the first place, because it obviously would not work.

Both parties have got to want a deal to go ahead in order to make it happen.

SheilaFentiman · 15/05/2023 13:08

“Forget the other flat, just look at it as the market has been falling and he doesn't think it is worth the price that was agreed a couple of months ago.”

That’s not what he has said. He has pointed to a different flat and said “match that price” - not a similar flat which is now at a lower price.

Whatever. CBA.

Iwasafool · 15/05/2023 13:09

SheilaFentiman · 15/05/2023 13:08

“Forget the other flat, just look at it as the market has been falling and he doesn't think it is worth the price that was agreed a couple of months ago.”

That’s not what he has said. He has pointed to a different flat and said “match that price” - not a similar flat which is now at a lower price.

Whatever. CBA.

He's quoting the other flat to show he has an alternative.

StaringAtTheWater · 15/05/2023 13:11

I would tell your EA to relist the property on Right Move asap OP. CF buyer needs to see you are serious about walking away.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/05/2023 13:17

No it isn't, it's like saying I could manage with the 2 pints of milk so I don't think I want to pay 50p a pint for the big bottle when I can buy the smaller one for 40p a pint.

Again you seem to think that because the small flat has an asking price of £20k less than the previously agreed price for the OPs flat that is what it will sell for, it might sell for £40k less than the agreed price for the OPs flat.

But it's all irrelevant, whatever you're looking to buy, pointing out that there are a lot of different options and price points/sizes for that item.

If he's so convinced that the smaller flat will be a better buy for him - whatever he ends up offering/paying for it - why doesn't he just completely pull out and buy that one instead?

I'm always very suspicious of people who insist that they could get a better deal elsewhere, but then go to the effort of pressuring you to match it rather than just taking the better deal that's available and waiting for them elsewhere.

GasPanic · 15/05/2023 13:38

"I'm always very suspicious of people who insist that they could get a better deal elsewhere, but then go to the effort of pressuring you to match it rather than just taking the better deal that's available and waiting for them elsewhere."

He's not signalling that there is a better deal. He's signalling that there is an alternative.

He would prefer the first option, if the price is right, but an alternative exists that he will settle for if the holder of the first option is not willing to negotiate.

Biddie191 · 15/05/2023 13:41

SO - any updates?

HerRoyalNotness · 15/05/2023 14:26

I wouldn’t have reduced it at all.

SpecialControlGroup · 15/05/2023 15:09

If we want to talk about buying something in a shop it would be more like you want to buy something, let's say a smart TV, they haven't got one in stock but they will get one in for you and it is £500. You get a message to collect it and as you are standing at the till the man in front is buying an identical TV for £450 and the shop says that's just an offer for today, you agreed to buy yours before the offer so you pay £500. Would you pay it?

That analogy doesn't work. In the OPs scenario he would be buying a 50 inch and the op is buying a 55 (as the other flat is not identical, it is smaller, in a worse position)

Devora13 · 15/05/2023 15:20

@AnotherForumUser
I think so, definitely one with Moist Von Lipwig (think that's how you spell it!)

SpecialControlGroup · 15/05/2023 15:22

Just caught up, I see what the analogy was saying but the market hasn't necessarily changed (it's not dropped everywhere and the OP hasn't mentioned where in the country she is) and that isn't what he is using as his reasoning, he is comparing her bigger better flat to the smaller crappy flat and expecting the OP to match to the other one

AnotherForumUser · 15/05/2023 15:52

@Devora13. Yup. That was the first book with Moist Von Lipwig. There's a few more with him. Can highly recommend Raising Steam. (Sorry to derail the thread).

Devilinthedetail82 · 15/05/2023 16:36

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll ·12/05/2019 12:44**
This reminds me of when we bought our house. We'd agreed a price, based on the asking price, but the survey came back having uncovered a number of issues which meant that their house was worth considerably less than they'd thought - and the mortgage company wouldn't lend any more than that.

but the “deal has been done” @WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

you got new info and changed your offer

this vendor also got new info… change in interest rate and perhaps something else that we aren’t privy too

LimeCheesecake · 15/05/2023 17:06

@Mustnotbeleftblank - any update today?

given you only marketed this flat for 2 months, I’d get it back on the market this week if he’s not come back to the full agreed price. You’ve got time, particularly if renting the property out for 12 months is an option for you.

DepartureLounge · 15/05/2023 17:41

SpecialControlGroup · 15/05/2023 15:22

Just caught up, I see what the analogy was saying but the market hasn't necessarily changed (it's not dropped everywhere and the OP hasn't mentioned where in the country she is) and that isn't what he is using as his reasoning, he is comparing her bigger better flat to the smaller crappy flat and expecting the OP to match to the other one

She said she's in the south-east.

Mtwatflyer · 15/05/2023 17:57

The fact they didn’t have cash ready is bit of a red flag. If they’re not ready today would write them off and get back on the market.

Emotionalsupportviper · 15/05/2023 18:07

Devora13 · 15/05/2023 08:08

Greed is the biggest problem afflicting our world at the moment. I'm reminded of a Terry Pratchett novel, where the protagonist was being really 'clever' ripping people off, but only later dud the human cost of his actions become evident.
So maybe in a purely B2B scenario, this kind of behaviour is considered acceptable. What we have here is a buyer who clearer has the price agreed available but is taking advantage of the system whereby a contract for sake of property, unlike other contracts, is not completed at the stage of offer and acceptance, leaving either party to change the rules right up to the last minute.
Here we have private individuals, presumably grieving, whose vulnerability is being taken advantage of.
I fully appreciate all the points of view about saleability, obligations to beneficiaries, costs involved in remarketing the property (which clearly the OP has considered), but IMHO, the only way to begin to make a change in the greed mentality which is killing our world is for each individual to make a stand against it. Especially those who have the knowledge and resources to do so.
I agree, this does not sound like a purchase for the buyer's mother (unless the type of development prohibits renting to third parties) but someone looking to make themselves rich due to the misfortune of others.

Hear, hear!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/05/2023 18:08

Wow, Devilinthedetail82 - have you been cyberstalking me, to try to catch me out?! You must have a lot of spare time on your hands!

But it still isn't the gotcha that you think it is, because:

A. We raised this much earlier on, as soon as we got the results of the survey. If you've bought or sold a house before under the English process, you will know that an offer is normally understood to be dependent on the survey confirming its value and how much the lender will lend on it, as to whether the buyer wishes to and is able to proceed at all, or with a revised offer. It is based on new information - about that property - coming to light and not information about the market in general/other unrelated properties that has been known all along.

First comes the offer, then the survey, then any revision of offer - long before a date is set for exchange of contracts and thus allowing both parties time to make sure that they are happy with the deal, before a contract is drawn up for that agreed deal.

B. Unlike OP's buyer (as well as never falsely claiming to be cash buyers, as we weren't), we did not deliberately wait until the very last minute, with all of the documents drawn up and agreed exchange date imminent, before dropping the bombshell.

I realise that there is a wide range of opinion on this thread, and we will probably have to agree to disagree. I was going to accept this and leave the thread there, until I saw that you'd been AS-stalking me for whatever reason you felt that a helpful use of your time, and so I felt duty-bound to respond to your insinuation comparing apples with oranges.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/05/2023 18:13

this vendor also got new info… change in interest rate and perhaps something else that we aren’t privy too

Everybody has known full well which way the interest rate has been headed for a long time now - not that it should have mattered in any way to the buyer, if he had been the cash buyer that he claimed to be and wanting the flat for his mother - presumably not as a commercial transaction between the two of them.

Of course, there could well have been something else that he uncovered, that we aren't privy to; but usually, the buyer (unless wanting to pull right out) would tell the seller what their issue was. I wonder why he only bothered to tell OP about this other unconnected, different specification flat and not raise any other issues; and also why he didn't manage to raise this or any other concerns until the very last minute - you know, in the way that gazunderers commonly do?

Devilinthedetail82 · 15/05/2023 18:14

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/05/2023 18:08

Wow, Devilinthedetail82 - have you been cyberstalking me, to try to catch me out?! You must have a lot of spare time on your hands!

But it still isn't the gotcha that you think it is, because:

A. We raised this much earlier on, as soon as we got the results of the survey. If you've bought or sold a house before under the English process, you will know that an offer is normally understood to be dependent on the survey confirming its value and how much the lender will lend on it, as to whether the buyer wishes to and is able to proceed at all, or with a revised offer. It is based on new information - about that property - coming to light and not information about the market in general/other unrelated properties that has been known all along.

First comes the offer, then the survey, then any revision of offer - long before a date is set for exchange of contracts and thus allowing both parties time to make sure that they are happy with the deal, before a contract is drawn up for that agreed deal.

B. Unlike OP's buyer (as well as never falsely claiming to be cash buyers, as we weren't), we did not deliberately wait until the very last minute, with all of the documents drawn up and agreed exchange date imminent, before dropping the bombshell.

I realise that there is a wide range of opinion on this thread, and we will probably have to agree to disagree. I was going to accept this and leave the thread there, until I saw that you'd been AS-stalking me for whatever reason you felt that a helpful use of your time, and so I felt duty-bound to respond to your insinuation comparing apples with oranges.

Says the poster with over 10,000 posts to her name

AS…. Takes a few seconds. Revelation!

yep, quiet day here, recovering from minor opp so rather bored!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/05/2023 19:14

Says the poster with over 10,000 posts to her name

Wow, is it that many?! It's true that I do probably spend too much time on here, but even so, it's kind of like the difference between throwing a load of rubbish in your own bin over several years and determinedly going through a stranger's bins!!

I'm aware of how AS works, but you must have had a fair old trawl to find a comment that I made about buying or selling a house in amongst all of that - and even then you don't appear to have found any dirt! I suppose your username is very apt, though.

Hope your recovery goes well Smile

pauliewaulie64 · 15/05/2023 19:29

Sure. All I'm saying is that it doesn't look like there's going to be a big long dip. Hanging on for a bit may end up being a good bet. But I agree, everywhere has it's own story doesn't it?