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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be socially excluded constantly

71 replies

Puddle23 · 10/05/2023 07:24

I don't really know where to start but essentially I just wanted to offload as I feel so fed up! Have two DDs, both lovely fun girls. Have posted threads before saying neither get many playdates or party invites. Have done all I can to immerse our family in the school and village community - been to every school event, village events, the girls take part in after school activities, we have the DDs friends over for playdates, done whole class parties, I've been to every class drinks each term.
I'm chatty and friendly to all on the school run, I dislike any behaviour that excludes anyone so am very conscious to chat to other parents and try to encourage my DDs to be inclusive and not leave other children out.
However I have found over the last few years that we are less and less involved socially with people I thought were good friends. I have felt one mum in particular has been socially engineering a friend group for her children, which has meant leaving my DD out, even though they were all friends for years before. I understand friend groups change and drift but it's the whispering and then the bragging about sleepovers and playdates to my DD and actually to me as well that is very upsetting. They are all 9/10 years old so I feel they know their words will upset my DD and can't help feel it's deliberate.
This has now spread out to our entire family being left out of social events that we used to be invited to.
And I can see it now starting with my youngest too.
I just feel so sad and completely lost as to why, I genuinely think we're a nice, kind family but I'm obviously missing something, and the thought of staying in this village for years to come makes me so miserable, suggested we moved to DH but not really practical. Not really looking for advice just needed to let it all out :(

OP posts:
Renasha · 10/05/2023 19:40

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WonderingWanda · 10/05/2023 19:41

I hate parents that try to engineer friendships for their kids. The good news is that in a year or two they'll be at secondary school and the interfering parents won't get a look in.

Casba · 10/05/2023 19:58

Yes, it all changes at secondary and that's when the values you've instilled can really help. DD was in this position and after a settling down period found a great group of like minded friends, who didn't bully or exclude others. Sadly the ones who engaged in this behaviour and whose role models were poor seemed to struggle throughout secondary repeatedly falling out with people. It will pay off in the end, just try and find some non DC related activities for yourself and do things elsewhere.

2bazookas · 10/05/2023 20:06

I have felt one mum in particular has been socially engineering a friend group for her children

So what? Isn't it exactly what you try to do, creating a social life for your kids and self?

The other child can pick her own friends and social life; there's no obligation to include your DD. The fact is she likes other kids more than she likes DD. Whyever should she and her friends NOT mention their social life in front of DD? It's perfectly normal for kids to talk to their friends about their plans and what they did.

Social life is not some kind of business contract with obligations and audited accounts. Maybe it puts people off that you are so uptight and insecure, always comparing and measuring people.

Blossombathing · 10/05/2023 20:13

2bazookas · 10/05/2023 20:06

I have felt one mum in particular has been socially engineering a friend group for her children

So what? Isn't it exactly what you try to do, creating a social life for your kids and self?

The other child can pick her own friends and social life; there's no obligation to include your DD. The fact is she likes other kids more than she likes DD. Whyever should she and her friends NOT mention their social life in front of DD? It's perfectly normal for kids to talk to their friends about their plans and what they did.

Social life is not some kind of business contract with obligations and audited accounts. Maybe it puts people off that you are so uptight and insecure, always comparing and measuring people.

Actually most parents raise their children to have manners and consideration and not talk about social occasions others were not invited to.

Would you honestly stand and speak to a friend about a party your other friend wasn’t invited to? It’s incredibly rude and crass. It can also look like you are pulling rank.

At least op this post provides you with an alternative mindset - people have different values and standards. Some people will go to great lengths to defend poor behaviour it seems.

Anyoneforacreamtea · 10/05/2023 20:38

You sound lovely OP. I hope the advice on this thread has helped.
I was in the same position as you. I moved to a tiny village 15 years ago from a big town. Hated it and the cliques. I decided I wasn't going to give it any head space and just kept myself to myself. My DC's had activities away from school/village and made some lovely friends. Fast forward my DC's are all at secondary school and have a nice bunch of friends. I decided I was going to join an activity for myself in the next town away from my village. (40 minutes drive) and absolutely love it. People are friendly and and very welcoming. When I first started I thought they were taking the piss as they were so nice. Been going for a few years so I know they are all genuine.
You know you are worth more than there crappy attitude towards you and your family so try not to let it get to you. Their are some lovely people out there who would love to be your friend.

Red0 · 10/05/2023 21:13

I completely get what you are saying and sounds very upsetting for you all.
I’m not saying that this is the case at all, but I can imagine a certain family who I know saying all the things that you’ve said about themselves and actually believing it all to be true (no self awareness), but in reality they’re a bloody nightmare! Mum thinks she chatty (she’s a gobshite), dad thinks he’s everyone’s pal (nobody wants to be his pal because he’s an aggressive, rude bigot), 2 kids force themselves on everyone but are horrible little brats/bullies.
I honestly am not saying that’s the case for you at all, I’m really not - I don’t really know what I’m saying, but maybe just how you think you are being might not be translating to other people.

If you know that you are all being the best people you can be then these just are not your people and they don’t deserve you.

IcedBananas · 10/05/2023 21:23

5128gap · 10/05/2023 11:41

Are your family socially excluded by everyone, or just by the in crowd? Often the things you describe result when people 'aspire' for want of a better word, to be in the group percieved as top of the social heirarchy and overlook other 'lower status' people as potential friends. Its very rare that anyone is excluded by everyone, so could you cast your net wider?

I agree with this. I can almost guarantee you’re not the only one feeling left out too. It’s probably happening/happened to others too. I also agree about villages. I’ve got used to feeling like the outsider now and I focus on my family and my hobbies and worry less about other people. It’s not
long now until your children will be at secondary school and you won’t need to be involved in organising play dates anymore

Blossombathing · 10/05/2023 21:51

A bunch of social climbers are not good role models for your dc, they will be learning and observing everything. Teaching them to be ‘grateful’ for crumbs of friendships and clinging to social groups is so far from ideal. Let them see how healthy relationships work, secure attachments and loving, loyal connections.

You dodged a bullet op, and so have your children.

2bazookas · 10/05/2023 22:17

Actually most parents raise their children to have manners and consideration and not talk about social occasions others were not invited to.

At age 9? dream on. Children are just excited and chatter to their own friends; they whisper and have secrets. That's normal child behaviour.

Would you honestly stand and speak to a friend about a party your other friend wasn’t invited to? It’s incredibly rude and crass. It can also look like you are pulling rank.

No, I would not because I'm an adult with adult social awareness. I don't expect little girls to behave like adults or blame them for being childish.

dephlogisticated · 10/05/2023 22:18

ImAvingOops · 10/05/2023 15:15

There's this weird period of time when your kids are in primary school, where you think it's really important to facilitate your children's friendships and be good friends with the other parents and it all seems so very important - like if you don't, your kids will never have any friends.
Then they go to secondary school and within a year or so you realise it was all complete bollocks. The women you see everyday at the primary school, you barely ever bump into once your kids start walking themselves to school! The kids make friends with people they never knew at primary, so all those carefully nurtured friendships don't always last!
And it's better for the kids when the sharp elbowed mums don't have so much influence!

You sound nice to me and honestly there's no way of knowing why socially, things don't always work out for some people in some places. Sometimes it can be a continuation of teenage bitchy behaviour where one person takes against you and takes everyone else with them. Or you come across as caring too much, which has the opposite effect of the one you want. You'll drive yourself nuts trying to figure it out - people are just strange!

Honestly, I think the happiest people are the ones who don't get too involved in village life and just do their thing with their own families and the friends that have evolved naturally in their lives!
So my advice is to care less and continue to be on polite terms and just let the rest go. Find activities for your family that are outside of village life, to get some perspective on how little these people really matter.

Such a lovely and true post, all of us with children at primary school should all save this and return to it for as many years as we need!!

Original poster
Puddle23 · 10/05/2023 22:38

Blossombathing · 10/05/2023 19:13

I came on to say this is not you. Stop torturing yourself looking for reasons, you won’t find them.
Village Queen Bee is flexing her status and muscles by showing the others she has the power to isolate you and it sounds like it is working. She will have been sowing seeds about you for a while now, distancing herself and expecting others to fall into line. They will have had chats over coffee or wine about how difficult it is, and how you are very sweet but….

I have seen this play out numerous times in our village school over the decades. It’s incredibly common.

Are any of your old friends in the group in contact now? Do you have other friends?

My best advice is to pull back, remain cool and courteous. Develop strong friendships outside of school for both you and your children. The children should aim to have home, family and activity friends so you do not have to depend on school socially.

In school there is bound to be other parents you can chat to, just focus on other people. Stop with the play dates and let others come to you, then invite them back.

You sound kind, it isn’t about kindness though. This is about adult mean girl pack mentality.

Thank you, I will stop thinking about it, this thread has been great for dealing with it and getting lots of different viewpoints. I do have other friends from pre-children so I shall enjoy their company and stop worrying about it all.

OP posts:
Original poster
Puddle23 · 10/05/2023 22:50

2bazookas · 10/05/2023 20:06

I have felt one mum in particular has been socially engineering a friend group for her children

So what? Isn't it exactly what you try to do, creating a social life for your kids and self?

The other child can pick her own friends and social life; there's no obligation to include your DD. The fact is she likes other kids more than she likes DD. Whyever should she and her friends NOT mention their social life in front of DD? It's perfectly normal for kids to talk to their friends about their plans and what they did.

Social life is not some kind of business contract with obligations and audited accounts. Maybe it puts people off that you are so uptight and insecure, always comparing and measuring people.

I think it's different tbh, I support my kids to create the social life that they would like letting them build and develop friendships with other children that they have chosen for themselves, as opposed to choosing who they will be friends with and 'engineering' social events week in week out to cement those groups.

All i can say is the way the chat about sleepovers etc comes up isn't in a natural flowing conversation, which as you say is perfectly normal and if it had been like that I wouldn't think anything of it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Puddle23 · 10/05/2023 22:55

Anyoneforacreamtea · 10/05/2023 20:38

You sound lovely OP. I hope the advice on this thread has helped.
I was in the same position as you. I moved to a tiny village 15 years ago from a big town. Hated it and the cliques. I decided I wasn't going to give it any head space and just kept myself to myself. My DC's had activities away from school/village and made some lovely friends. Fast forward my DC's are all at secondary school and have a nice bunch of friends. I decided I was going to join an activity for myself in the next town away from my village. (40 minutes drive) and absolutely love it. People are friendly and and very welcoming. When I first started I thought they were taking the piss as they were so nice. Been going for a few years so I know they are all genuine.
You know you are worth more than there crappy attitude towards you and your family so try not to let it get to you. Their are some lovely people out there who would love to be your friend.

Thank you - your message made me laugh about how you thought the nice people were taking the piss, good idea on venturing out wider to an activity for me!

OP posts:
Original poster
Puddle23 · 10/05/2023 22:56

Blossombathing · 10/05/2023 21:51

A bunch of social climbers are not good role models for your dc, they will be learning and observing everything. Teaching them to be ‘grateful’ for crumbs of friendships and clinging to social groups is so far from ideal. Let them see how healthy relationships work, secure attachments and loving, loyal connections.

You dodged a bullet op, and so have your children.

This is such a good point about modelling healthy friendships to my DDs thank you

OP posts:
Original poster
Puddle23 · 10/05/2023 22:59

Red0 · 10/05/2023 21:13

I completely get what you are saying and sounds very upsetting for you all.
I’m not saying that this is the case at all, but I can imagine a certain family who I know saying all the things that you’ve said about themselves and actually believing it all to be true (no self awareness), but in reality they’re a bloody nightmare! Mum thinks she chatty (she’s a gobshite), dad thinks he’s everyone’s pal (nobody wants to be his pal because he’s an aggressive, rude bigot), 2 kids force themselves on everyone but are horrible little brats/bullies.
I honestly am not saying that’s the case for you at all, I’m really not - I don’t really know what I’m saying, but maybe just how you think you are being might not be translating to other people.

If you know that you are all being the best people you can be then these just are not your people and they don’t deserve you.

Thank you, I will definitely give it some thought about whether I/we come across how I think we do and reflect on that.

OP posts:
Backtonormalatlast · 10/05/2023 23:05

YDBear · 10/05/2023 08:41

Let's face it, the whole idea of playdates etc is weird from the get-go. Remember when you just went over to your friend's, knocked on the door and asked if they could come out to play? This whole parental uber-control thing is actually dreadful for kids; how on earth did it get this way?

Agree with you .

BeverlyHa · 27/05/2023 12:20

Do not make a meal out of that. This is fake social life and a genuine friend is not someone who can come up with exclusion for your family.

I never quite got used to the English primary school gate thing and I am foreign and my decision was to let my child find friends at school and keep them but only if they are true friends. I made clear from the beginning I am not a gossip, I am not interested in bitching behaviour and I am not going to play anyone's games. - so i am free and very happy. My daughter made friends and they are all fake , the parents are very empty headed and lack basic moral compasses. So therefore, what is my daughter losing - nothing. She is gaining from losing friends with bitch mothers in order to find a solid, good, morally sound kids for new friends.

Why do you need to put all your happiness in someone elses hands and random social calendars?????

BeverlyHa · 27/05/2023 12:26

You have to see through the reality that genuinely beautiful and kind people won't do thing to hurt or exclude or others ....so in giving these types of people some thought you are giving the evil they do even more power but you should be doing the opposite instead, being a nice person and gravitating toward nice people only.

Highdaysandholidays1 · 27/05/2023 12:37

I have encountered this Queen Bee behaviour at the school gates. I chose not to take it personally, to hold my head up, chat to other people who are interesting/unusual/might also have been excluded. I have loads of friends, but they are my friend (friends with me) and not part of groups or cliques.

Don't look to see if they involve you, or be nice or do anything with them now- these are not friends of yours. My tactic is to say hi with a beaming smile and then walk on not even looking to see if they reply. Be polite, and don't cut off your nose to spite your face, but don't look to be integrated. If your children moan they didn't get invited to something, be brisk about it unless they have been dumped by a best friend.

I don't know why groups turn like this, but I've been on the receiving end of not very nice group behaviour three times in my life- now I just maintain my own friends, encourage my children to do likewise and we are all a lot happier.

Cyb3rg4l · 19/06/2023 18:51

Village life is weird, you could live there your entire life and still be treated as outsiders for no reason at all other than not having roots that go back generations. Best to ignore the nonsense and just get on with family life. Secondary school and the wider pool of friends available should sort this all out. It’s always a mistake to get drawn into school mum politics.

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