Was this accident my fault?

[TafeaJovouzto]

Had a minor scrape and I don't know whether I should argue that it wasn't my fault, or whether I should accept some responsibility.

The location of the accident is a horrible corner to negotiate and I am sure there are regular scrapes there.

I am the orange car, going up a steep hill where there is a wiggle around to the left then I immediately turn right, and the larger blue van is coming down the hill, wiggling around a sharp left hand turn then immediately going around to the right. The vast majority of traffic at this corner follows these paths, it is quite rare for cars to go in the other direction as it doesn't lead anywhere except to a few houses. I do this bend at least twice a week as it is between home and my child's school, they get the bus most days but occasionally need collecting. It's normal for drivers in both directions to pause and establish whether someone else is coming the other way because you don't want to be doing the bend at the same time as someone else.

On this occasion I believe I am clear to go and am just at the first corner when I realise the blue van hasn't stopped and is swinging around the corner. I stop the car on instinct because in the event of something going wrong in a car it is a lot better to be stationary. The van swings past me but scrapes my back right bumper.

Damage is minor and probably cosmetic, there is no change in shape to the bumper but a big white scrape. There is no damage to the side of the van, so it's only my car that needs a repair. I am getting an estimate tomorrow.

Van driver says it is partially my fault because he judged where I would have been if I had kept going and if I hadn't stopped there wouldn't have been a collision.

I feel that stopping is never an inherrently unsafe thing to do.

However if we go through insurance I will lose my no-claims bonus. I have 12 years officially "no-claims" but have had 2 claims in the last 2 years - once when I was a genuine idiot and had a brain fart while parking and scraped the side of my car, and the second when someone went into the back of me and it was 100% their fault. I didn't lose my no-claims status with these as I had paid the extra to protect my no-claims bonus, but I have been told if I make another claim this side of September 2023 I will lose my no-claims status.

So I am considering sorting it out between me and the van driver if that will be cheaper than the impact of losing the "no-claims" but I need to be sure of myself on whether I should be accepting partial responsibility or whether it was all his fault. Please could you vote?

YABU - you share the blame and should expect to contribute to the cost

YANBU - you are blameless and the van driver is fully responsible.

If you vote YABU could you comment as to what proportion of the cost you think I should be accepting? (e.g. 100% if you think it's totally my fault, 50% if you think we are equally to blame)

If we are going to assume OP isn’t telling the truth and did not have good reason to stop for fear of a crash but was just being overly dramatic and could have easily made it through then yes, OP bears blame here.

But from her diagrams and what she’s posted, no. Him thinking he’s going to be able to squeeze round at just the right point as OP approaches is not a good reason for entering the road blocking an oncoming driver with right of way. That’s just chancing his arm in the hope he’ll save a few seconds. And doing it at a speed that means he is unable to stop before hitting a stationary vehicle when his scenario didn’t go exactly to plan is, again, poor driving.

As I said, I agree the insurance companies would almost certainly consider it 50/50. But if you had that in a court and the evidence told us the same as the OP has here, I don’t think that’s the way a judge would rule.

Well, his argument will be that he only hit her because she stopped in the middle of the road for no apparent reason.

Without any evidence either way, it will just go 50/50. I've had accidents on roads like this - with no dashcam or CCTV, they can't prove fault.

Who was where in relation to the centre of the road?

Well, his argument will be that he only hit her because she stopped in the middle of the road for no apparent reason.

That argument holds no weight though.

You can’t just drive into something because it’s there and blame it on them. OP didn’t just appear out of nowhere, he clearly misjudged the gap and hit her, it’s his fault. He should have stopped at the point he couldn’t go any further without contact and waited for the OP to pull forward so they could both carry on, it’s a scenario that happens all the time on tight country lanes with tiny passing points.

Drivers need to be prepared for other drivers stopping unexpectedly. There could be a horse in the road, a pedestrian, you can’t just say - oh I only hit you because I judged where you’d be if you hadn’t stopped.

On a windy, narrow road with blind bends you should expect people to be driving very slowly and pausing if they are not sure it’s safe to pass. Two cars going full pelt at each other in a narrow road is never going to be safe. OP did the right thing.

If he tried that argument I think even the insurance company would put him at fault!

Wouldn't that depend on where she stopped?

If she stopped on her side of the line - fair enough.
But if she was on his side of the road to get around a car/corner - not as straightforward, surely?

I know, I drive on narrow country roads all the time.

He didn't feel as though he needed to stop, because he wasn't expecting OP to stop. She then stopped unexpectedly, and he scraped the back of her car.

Maybe he was going too fast and couldn't stop in time.
Maybe OP slammed on the brakes suddenly in a panic.
Maybe they were both too close to the middle of the road.
Maybe one of them was over the line.

We don't know either way, which is why it will go 50/50.

It looks to me as if he should've paused at the junction and waited for you to go past.
I agree. And he hit a stationary vehicle too. I think he is on the wrong.

@coffeecupsandwaxmelts

Wouldn't that depend on where she stopped?

Not at all.

It's not a case of opinion, he was moving, she wasn't. That makes him 100% responsible.

Proving it is a different matter, without evidence/witnesses it's his word against OP so likely to be a % blame.

Based on what OP has said though, he is definitely at fault.

He was probably in the wrong but it will be impossible to prove. I was parked in a bay and someone scraped down the back half of my car but he denied it so I had to pay the excess and it will affect my future insurance quotes. I do have protected no claims but only if no more accidents within a specified period I think. Was recorded as a fault claim too despite me parked. Really pissed me off.

It doesn't matter where a car stops or why, the other car is responsible for hitting it. Otherwise we could claim from the broken down car that we didn't expect to be there. I used to investigate these type of claims for a living, admittedly many years ago.

so if i stop for whatever reason on a road and someone scrapes my car why woud it be my fault?

This! Not your fault, but not sure insurance will bother to look at it properly

You were stationary it's the van drivers fault. I had a very similar accident, car more toward my side in the middle of the road (on to my side) over taking a parked car, they stopped dead when they saw me coming around the corner. I didn't see them as they were in my blind spot on my stupid car. Crash happened my insurance company blamed me entirely because they were stationary. Didn't matter that they were on the wrong side of the road.

Best case is he tells the insurance company that he hit a stationary vehicle.

I believe the Highway Code gives drivers going uphill right of way. Plus you were already in the carriageway that he was turning into.

I think he's at fault. I wouldn't admit blame but as many have said your insurance is unlikely to want to duke it out and therefore it will probably go 'knock for knock'. If the damage is minor see if he's prepared to sort it out between you.

I live on a minor road that is two narrowish lanes except for a single pinch-point where two average-sized cars can get through but if you meet anything larger like a lorry or a tractor you stop. According to some of you here that would make us bad drivers. Good luck with telling a whole village of us that we're the problem and should keep going in the face of an imminent crash.

Absolutely no point in progressing if you're going to get stuck and from the OP's diagrams it looks as if they could have got stuck if she'd proceeded. If the van couldn't safely pass her he should have stopped and she could have moved forward a few inches to let him pass. Astonished that people are blaming her for actively avoiding a prang.