The People demand that the Boats are Stopped.

[noblegiraffe]

I keep reading about the Tory government working hard to deliver the people's priorities:

"Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Government are focused on five immediate priorities. We will halve inflation, grow the economy, reduce debt, cut NHS waiting lists and stop the boats."

Halve inflation (will happen anyway), grow the economy (vague), reduce debt (vague), cut NHS waiting lists (maybe by paying nurses and doctors more?), stop the boats (what?).

Maybe it's just where I live, but I'm not seeing this immediate urgent need to "stop the boats". It's certainly nowhere near my top 5 priorities for the government to be immediately tackling. If it was, I'd probably look at creating legal routes for genuine asylum seekers as a first step rather than shipping them to Rwanda.

Is it in your top 5 urgent government priorities? Are they speaking to the people and I've just completely missed it?

YABU: Stopping the boats is in my top 5 government priorities.
YANBU: I'm more concerned about something else and would bump Stop the Boats down the list.

The Tories have had majority control over immigration for over 13 years and sole control since 2015

Limited control on EU immigration:
December 2017
The European commission has said EU member states have no right to deport EU citizens for being homeless and said EU citizens had a right to live in other EU countries “irrespective of whether they are homeless or not”.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/dec/14/home-office-policy-deport-eu-rough-sleepers-ruled-unlawful

Can you be requested to leave or be deported? You may live in the other EU country as long as you continue to meet the conditions for residence. If you no longer do so, the national authorities may require you to leave.

In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy or public security - but only if it can prove you represent a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/inactive-citizens/index_en.htm

@Florenz I don't disagree. Are they now paying far more and fully staffed with native Brits?? Because I think the answer is no- and I don't think it would be even if they paid £17 an hour ( around what my son earns in IT)

Exactly. Most adults can now only buy their own home with parental help, there is not enough social housing and private rents are so high, most young adults can only afford to rent with friends.

@Snippysocks and do you believe the above is as a direct result of people coming across the Channel in dinghies ? Because the Government have been very clever here, they are not saying stop immigration, they have no issue with the vast majority of immigration into the UK, which is a lot higher than those travelling across the Channel.

That's like saying the way to stop murder is to make murder legal.

No it isn't.

we already have taken far more than is fair

Compared to, say, Turkey?

No, it isn't, because claiming asylum is already completely legal. All that is proposed that we make the process safe, rather than leaving vulnerable people at the mercy of exploitative criminals. We already provide safe passage for a select few, there is no logic in failing to provide it for all refugees.

Of course there is a reason for us to take refugees: we entered into a treaty that said we would. And also because we are supposed to be a civilised, humane country. We haven't taken "far more than is fair": have a look at the statistics on how many refugees we take compared to other countries, particularly the countries bordering Ukraine and Afghanistan.

Absolutely none of that changes Tory responsibility. Up till 2016 the Conservatives enthusiastically supported EU membership, they can't claim that EU rules are nothing to do with them.

noblegiraffe
What about the thousands coming in from Hong Kong?

Pretty expensive for applicants (proof of sufficient funds etc.) including paying the health surcharge. In fact, Labour's Shadow Minister for Immigration (Stephen Kinnock) has complained that the Hong Kong visa route excludes low income families - so expect Labour to lower the requirements;
Health surcharge
For each adult (18 or older) it costs:
£1,560 if you’re staying for 2 years and 6 months
£3,120 if you’re staying for 5 years

For each child (under 18), it costs:
£1,175 if you’re staying for 2 years and 6 months
£2,350 if you’re staying for 5 years
You pay the healthcare surcharge as part of your online visa application.

There is no magic money tree and we have to work out our priorities. Spending nearly £7million pounds a day on housing for the boat people is certainly not helping the housing crisis, though the crisis is also caused by greedy builders buying up land and sitting on it and very poor local and national planning.
Don't mistake me - this government has handled housing and immigration badly (while also, in the past 3 years dealing with Brexit and the pandemic and supporting the Ukrainian war). I'm just as annoyed with the Conservative government as many people. But I've not heard lots of constructive criticism from other parties and suspect that the Labour Party is secretly quite glad that it hasn't been in power over the past few years....

Brexit was a great example, I couldn't tell you the number of times I heard it explained clearly, succinctly, articulately, and without any judgement or aggression that voting for Brexit would not result in a change to immigration into the UK because immigration to the UK was (and is) controlled by the UK. That has always been 100% true for non-eu migration and even when we were subject to the free movement of people in the EU there were a raft of conditions that meant we could control inward migration so that it was not detrimental to the country.

But people who felt immigration was out of control didn't want to hear it and didn't want to hold the government in power accountable for their actions (or in this case in action). They didn't want an actual explanation as to why things were they way they were and what would need to happen to change things, they want a three word slogan, a promise of action (although never a deadline for it), and someone to point the finger at (in Brexits case a mixture of migrants taking jobs).

All of this. I vividly remember the day after the referendum when there was a nasty undercurrent of "Yay, now we'll get all the forrins out". Born and bred UK citizens were being told they'd have to "go home" now, purely because they didn't have white skins. If you so much as hinted that the celebrators were doomed to disappointment, you were a remoaner and a sore loser. And, of course, seven years later those dreadful remoaners have inevitably been proved right, as was always going to happen.

"Yay, now we'll get all the forrins out
Is that a typo or just a joke about regional accents/class? I never heard anyone speak like that!

So these applicants from Hong Kong won't require houses or schools or put any sort of pressure on the infrastructure, because they aren't low income families? Are you sure?

I understand the people traffickers can charge thousands per person to cross the Channel, so those families also have to have money.

Just spotted this in the Irish Times;
9 May 2023;
The rising number of people sleeping in tents in the area surrounding the International Protection Office (IPO) on Mount Street Lower in Dublin city centre has created an “unprecedented” situation, according to refugee advocates.

As of Monday evening, 41 tents, most believed to be housing international protection (IP) applicants, could be counted close to the office of the State body responsible for processing asylum applications.
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/05/09/unprecented-gathering-of-homeless-asylum-seekers-in-dublin-city-centre/

We have absolutely NOT taken more than is fair. This graph shows how many asylum claims were made in 2021, as a per capita statistic. So allowing for the size of each country's population.

There's a similar graph adjusted for land mass, which also shows the UK to be taking a lot fewer asylum seekers than the rest of the EU + UK. But even so, land mass isn't very useful as EU countries with a higher land mass (;ike France) don't have that extra space populated or built on. You can't just stick asylum seekers in fields.

https://www.nrc.no/perspectives/2020/the-10-countries-that-receive-the-most-refugees/

noblegiraffe
So these applicants from Hong Kong won't require houses or schools or put any sort of pressure on the infrastructure, because they aren't low income families?

I was pointing out that Labour's Shadow Minister for Immigration wants to put more pressure on infrastructure by inviting low income families from Hong Kong. Personally, I have no problem with middle class immigration.

I understand the people traffickers can charge thousands per person to cross the Channel, so those families also have to have money

The Hong Kong applicants are paying for their own accommodation.

This.

EU countries with a higher land mass (like France) don't have that extra space populated or built on

To be fair - France has 3.6 million second homes.

Booting out all the Brits with second homes to make room for asylum seekers will go down REALLY well!

The Hong Kong applicants are paying for their own accommodation.

Are they also building it? And the schools needed?

So many complaints about the boat people putting strain on the infrastructure....

Personally, I have no problem with middle class immigration.

So if the people on the boats are middle class then they're good to come here?

Greedy landlords aren't the result of immigration. The latest wheeze is to ask potential renters what they're prepared to offer... As if they were bidding for a house.
Thatcher selling off all the social housing and not allowing councils to build any more did enormous damage. Forty years on and social housing is almost extinct.

@beguilingeyes I'm not saying the fault is immigration but anyone with half a brain can see the problem if we already have a housing crisis how allowing thousands more in will help the situation???

Read your own thread noble. I’m not quoting verbatim but as a teacher pretty sure we all understand what is meant by the wording of some of the posts.

noblegiraffe
So if the people on the boats are middle class then they're good to come here?

The Hong Kong applicants have been invited to come here - I don't think anyone arriving by small boat is a good idea.

If the government, and councils put half as much energy into sorting housing as they do into stirring up hatred it would be a start. The political will isn't there.
There are over a quarter of a million empty homes in the UK. Why are they empty? Now that everyone is working from home can't some of the empty offices/shops be used?
Should people from outside the UK be able to buy up property here and leave it empty?
It seems to me that almost all politicians are only concerned with getting/hanging on to power and kicking important decisions, like social care, down the line so it becomes someone else's problem.
Remember when Johnson said he'd sort out social care? Why should he care when it's not his family that are spending £5,000 a month to keep someone in a nursing home.
There's no long term thinking.We need cross-party big ideas and plans about this stuff. Not three-word slogans and xenophobia.