Power of attorney with money hungry BIL

[Sittinginmysunnygarden]

My elderly but generally well parents have decided to give me and my sibling power of attorney. Dad is 87 mum is 81. They live independently and don’t need any additional care currently. They’re comfortable but not wealthy.

My BIL is a spendaholic and lives outside his means and my sister is always approaching our parents for money.

I’m a bit concerned this POA will mean DSIS/BIL have more access to my parents assets than they currently have.

BIL recently made a comment about my parents having loads of money. This is not true, they are generous with what they have but are not very wealthy.

AIBU to have concerns and raise this with DM/DDad?

If you are worried greedy BIL could coerce your sister into accessing your parents bank accounts ( I would be) I’d raise it with your parents. I’ve known it happen.
My SIL had POA for FIL’s affairs, she got a shock when he died and she found out POA stopped when he died and his estate had to be dealt with through probate.

If they insist on both if you bring poa after you have expressed your concerns they need to make sure it’s a joint one so both signatures are required at all times

PS It’s non of your BIL’s business how much money your parents have. I’d suggest you ask your parents to make sister and you co-signees, I.e one can’t withdraw or transfer funds without the other.

You'd be better to post this in Legal Matters rather than AIBU. But AFAIK the POA doesn't come into effect until one or both of your parents becomes non compos mentis.

When the time comes, you will jointly take over control of the bank account and you should try to make everything so that you both have to sign. Not sure how that works these days with online banking.

How are they fixed for wills, and who is the executor? Hopefully joint again, or you.

POA does not mean you or they have free access to your parents money or that they can do anything to benefit themselves.

POA for finances can come in whenever you like, it doesn't have to wait until you have lost capacity.

And unfortunately although you are supposed to only use their finances in their best interest, nobody actually monitors that you are doing this so it is ripe for abuse.

Setting things up for joint signatures makes life very difficult unless both attorneys live in the same town and are easy to get hold of.

I'd suggest to your parents that they pick one of you and the other as a back up, and bear in mind greedy BIL when deciding which one to pick.

We’re both executors of their wills and it’s 50/50 although BIL has expressed his disagreement as I have two children and they have four. He thinks they should have a bigger ‘cut’ - all very distasteful to me!

I have zero intention of accessing any of my parent’s affairs unless they become unable to manage or ask me to. I’m not so sure DSIS will be the same. Good point about internet banking but I suppose to set it up in the first place will require both approvals.

We don’t live in the same town, very far away actually, but I don’t care, I still don’t want them to have single POA however inconvenient it makes it.

But AFAIK the POA doesn't come into effect until one or both of your parents becomes non compos mentis.

This is not accurate. As my DH worked away from home for extended periods, I had poa which meant that I had the authority to deal with any company where he was the account holder eg Sky, British Gas, bank, on his behalf. I even had to lodge the poa document with Sky before they would discuss his account with me.

My DS works overseas on a 5/3 week rota and he has given me poa. This was very useful when he was stuck at work for nine months at the height of covid lockdowns and unable to access important accounts.

You need jointly & severally poa so all have to agree and sign for any financial transactions

When my Mum wanted this, I insisted that the localfamily solicitor be involved. I think it was £700 for both finance and health. She spoke separately to all involved, my Mum to make sure she had capacity, me and dh (who is a reserve attorney) and my dsis. She has written records of explaining to each of us what our responsibilities are.

Isn't severally so that just one can sign?

Can someone be appointed to whom you are accountable who could/would step in if they thought that your parents were being fleeced?

This sounds like a nightmare. And although you say BIL it's your sister I assume who has the POA and is either as greedy as her husband or for other reasons unwilling to stand up to him.

Whatever the legal solution, to avoid heartbreaking situations in the future, can you all agree some general principles and put them in writing. The most obvious being that your parents money in their lifetime is to be spent entirely and exclusively for their direct benefit. If you have a joint meeting I think it would be hard for your sister to argue with this and once agreed and noted might help avoid future tension where she and her husband try to argue otherwise.

Isn't it disgusting
Siblings arguing over money.

Tell your parents to spend their money while they are alive and your brother to go.out there and earn his own money.

I’m not arguing over their money, I’m trying to protect them from greedy BIL and weak sister. Thankfully my parents are still enjoying their money.

Good hopefully there's nothing for your greedy bil anyway.

Are the documents drawn up and signed yet?

I would express your concern to your DMum and DDad and ask that both you and your sister both need to act jointly.

My uncle had power of attorney over money that was supposed to be for my grandmother’s benefit in her old age but he spent most of it on a slap-up wedding for my cousin.

From my experience with a greedy bil I would suggest to your parents that they set up joint poa with you and your sister with either a 3rd trusted attorney or a replacement attorney. On the form they can specify that poa only comes into effect when they lose capacity. On the section marked "instructions" they can specify that monthly statements must now be shared between all attorneys and parents and annual accounts prepared along with all receipts. They can also specify that x amount be gifted to xxx people each birthday or Christmas. They should start up Internet banking now if they are able to do so, get all bills switched to direct debit, soecifythe house can only be sold with the agreement of all attorneys. If your bil is not named as a poa he has no legal right to be involved in their finances.

I've been going through hell because BIL helped himself to a huge amount of money after POA was granted.

The donors (your parents) are allowed to stipulate rules. I'd suggest you and your sister have to act together and monthly accounts of spending should be produced. The police are involved in my case. PM if you have any questions.

The opg only produce one set of signed poa papers now and it is nigh on impossible to get another copy. I would suggest the original be sent to your parents, their bank or solicitors with your parents certifying and signing an extra photo copy of each page . If like us the original is with sis then you will probably never get to see the original.

It did in FIL’s case, my sister in law was a second card holder on his bank account. She paid for anything he needed from it, withdrew cash for him, paid bills etc. She was trustworthy but tried to write a cheque to pay a bill on his account after he’d died, the bank had already been notified of his death and froze the account until probate.

I probably wouldn't say anything but I would insist on the joint signatures and I would keep a very very careful log of everything that happens with supporting evidence.
I think you should expect that the brother-in-law will take advantage if he thinks he can get away with it and plan accordingly.

Well obviously I meant free access in order to help themselves! Sorry I thought that was obvious.