Increase in culture of envy

[BrighteyesBonnie]

AIBU to think that the culture of envy has increased significantly in the UK (if Mumsnet is anything to go by)?

For example, a thread by a lawyer asking whether their current salary is fair given their qualifications and years of experience contained a lot of responses angry that the OP is earning more than them and also ridiculing the OP for wanting a better salary.

Another example are threads on private schools, where there is a strong undercurrent of anger at those who are sending or want to send their children to private schools. Privately educated people are viewed with harsh lenses and often insulted.

Ambition and doing well do not appear to be appreciated if you’re doing better than the average.

Don't you think people posting their holidays and lifestyles on social media are the cause of it? Before you didn't really see what others were doing - sure they had bigger houses etc but it wasn't so much in your face.

Disagree
People that waste 18 years of free education will waste new ones

Asian kids in racist comps do well in life.
Whilst their parents are stuck in factories.
Culture of violence as well for some
Yet these kids do well but their native contemporaries don't

I no longer do this but up until a few years ago I would take people from other departments to have a chance inn my department, those from factory floor, admin, receptionist all wasted it and didn't want to put the hard work in all these people were white natives - however, the polish woman, Sudanese man, Indian previously sahm, Bangladeshi former kitchen cook all did well and put the hard work in.

The problem is entitled and moaning attitude of the majority poor of this country. At least put the work in and see how it goes.

In other countries it's the immigrants that come in poor and stay poor.

No I don’t think there’s a culture of envy. I do think there’s a greater expectation of equality nowadays, and people are annoyed when others display the fact that they’re significantly better off. And there’s a feeling that if you’re already better off you should be grateful not grasping for even more.

I know someone whose parents are both South Asian immigrants. The dad is a car mechanic and the mum has never worked and doesn't speak very good English. All three kids are doctors now. Like you say, people don't move halfway across the world for their kids to have the same shitty lives they left behind.

Maybe they should counterbalance it with photos of what they are doing to earn those holidays. Photos of them stressed out at work probably isn’t very glamorous.

For the billionth time - no-one is jealous of private school parents just sick to death of of the moaning about fees or the moaning about how everyone judges them and the time deafness of it all

I don’t understand this, we live in a capitalist society not a communist one. We will never have a financially equal society, but we should have one where social mobility and opportunities are equal. Why should folks stop striving for more if they have more than average. Everyone should be able to strive for more.

How many of those parents do you know then that your sick to death of it?

What also surprises me is that there are very many people born here (regardless of ethnicity) who think that people of colour either do not or should not earn more or have more than they do. That creates a lot of anger when reality kicks in and then the demonisation begins - taking our jobs, token, some sort of privilege. Anything other than sheer determination and great sacrifice to move ahead.

Social mobility and opportunities are not equal though, and everyone knows that. Some people are smarter or more beautiful or talented, funnier or more likeable. Some have richer parents and more opportunities handed to them. And if you already have more than most, people will see it as greed if you want even more.

It's all part of a system that leads people to attack each other when they should be turning their anger on the super-rich who take far more than they could ever earn in a lifetime and avoid paying an appropriate level of tax on what they get (which would still leave them with more than they could ever spend)

True
We really don’t know what people have had to go through to get where they are.
Posters anger is often misdirected.
Their anger should be directed at successive Governments who have destroyed both our NHS, schools and have failed to provide enough social housing.
People can’t afford to buy a house despite earning well and private rentals are expensive. When they hear about someone buying a house worth a million pound home 50k+ wages they are upset. Sad

"Politics of Envy"
"Virtue signalling"

Both terms used to attack people with principles

I feel that sometimes when you are struggling the answers on here from those who clearly aren't can be less than helpful- stuff like 'I can't find anywhere to rent and can't get social housing' get responses like- surely there must be something, move to a much cheaper area or get a better paid job- it really isn't that simple in so many cases- especially if you have children in the mix or elderly relatives and little in the way of savings. Not all jobs are 'wfh' - many people in poor positions really value having a few friends on doorstep to help them out etc. and I do feel if you are really struggling then the lack of headroom for improving you or your children's aspirations does come into the mix

There has been a vast increase in inequality this century. What you perceive as a culture of envy comes from a culture of increased and deliberate unfairness.

It's not. It's low bar.
Greater expectation of equality would be putting standards hogher and making sure people can get there.
What we see often on MN is bar being as low as it can get and wanting others to drop there.
For example, It's not priviledged to work on more than NMW. NMW shouldn't be standard but, as the name even suggests, a minimum.
Citing everything else as priviledge actually makes the minimum into standard and that standard will stick forever

Communism was also not economically equal for people

Private education is an issue.

When children begin schooling at a similar level of intelligence there is a clear overtaking by children who are then moved to the private sector. It’s not because they are more intelligent it’s because of smaller class sizes and the fact that they are filtered because most have an entrance exam. Children with certain special educational requirements won’t pass the exam. Just dwell on that one unpalatable reason. Private education is divisive, it’s just very clear it really contributes to unequal opportunity. I actually studied this subject for my Undergrad dissertation.

Private education is an issue........Private education is divisive, it’s just very clear it really contributes to unequal opportunity

Ooooooor. Low quality of state schooling is the issue. Imagine if all that energy people spend on trying to get rid of private schools went into bettering state ones

Agree. The problem should not be that there are people doing well. Why focus only on private schools? Why not on tutoring or private health or those who can afford to have vehicles?

Inequality has increased massively in Britain in the last ten years. But rich people are surprised when others notice this.

Ah, but who are the 'rich people'?

Is it the super-rich, who own a very large proportion of their wealth, and never have to work a day in their lives?
Those on 'average' incomes who were lucky enough to buy a decade or two ago. Now comfortable enough to give their kids 20K towards a house deposit?
Or the 'high earners' who earn six figures between them in London but between a mortgage and childcare have very little left each month?
OR, the average earners (which in Manchester surprise surprise, includes the 'teachers and nurses') who can afford to buy a house because they could stay at home to save money? That's at least £500 a month saved. Much richness!

Which one of these are you talking about?

Some people. I don’t. I am all for people bettering themselves and trying to achieve more. Irrelevant of their start in life. I certainly don’t see it as greed and them achieving more doesn’t mean others can’t.

You can think on multiple levels, though.

At an individual level the 'wrong' or 'right' choices are complex. Women especially are told to 'do what we love'. Not chase the money. Ambition is seen as a dirty word and as seen on previous threads people get called greedy etc for wanting more.
This attitude damages the UNDERPRIVILEGED, who will have to fund their own house deposits etc. Not the privileged, who can take lower paid jobs. Whether it is nursing, TA, writing, whatever. In fact it is not even the super rich, living at home for free is a big privilege which here in Manchester many 'ordinary' people have anyway.

Now, at a national level certain professions are underpaid and we should (well I do, don't know about the rest of you) be pushing to change that. In fact the more people leave the more something will HAVE to be done about it!

But that doesn't mean that on an individual basis I wouldn't advise people to go on to better jobs. In fact as an ambassador for women in my professions and career counsellor I can and have helped those of many different backgrounds into better jobs.

Can everyone do it? Nope. Can 'more' than we think, do it? Yep. It would be a shame if they never tried, because everyone around them went all 'ohhh hard work doesn't pay, only the rich and privileged can do it, so be happy with your lot'. People are mocked in certain schools in my area for wanting to focus on studies and do better.

Multiple things can be true at the same time. They aren't mutually exclusive.

10% who own 50% would be my idea of wealthy

If the median wealth equalled mean wealth then I might feel we had made good progress