To think using horses the way the royals do needs to be stopped.

[WildFlowerBees]

The way their horses are used in ceremonies really isn't good. I don't expect everyone to get it, lots of people who don't know about horses just see it and think oh look how lovely, lots of riders don't see the issue. I don't find it comfortable watching horses some just under their threshold and a few over it.

I've had horses for years mostly rescues, I don't subscribe to the BHS way of thinking so I'm already labelled as 'odd' I find this sort of treatment of animals sad.

😏 🙄

So, can I ask - again, with the disclaimer that I know nothing about horses - is it a widespread occupational hazard for ex-racers that they will have endured some trauma from what was expected of them, or was your boy just unlucky @foxlover47? In discussions about the safety and ethics of racing, and NH in particular, you hear racing types insist that the horses love it and are treated like princelings etc. Is that a load of flannel, or is it true to some extent but individual horses have a bad experience? Where does the balance lie?

I'm genuinely interested because I grew up enjoying the Grand National and the NH season on TV generally and always have a flutter on it just for old times' sake, but my kids are horrified that I would support it and enjoy it. The welfare issues in racing are really forefront in my mind atm but it's hard to get an objective view. It all came up again recently obviously and I'd really like to be more informed.

You may have studied equine behaviour but you definitely have some odd ideas.

I do think most of the horses were just excited rather than scared, but a few may have show some nervous behaviour. Anyway, horses spook very easily as they are prey animals and so it is very normal everyday behaviour. My herd of horses kept in very natural conditions are often spooked by a bird flying out of a tree or a dog on a footpath when they are loose in the field and it sets them all off galloping. That is not cruelty, it is normal prey animal behaviour. If you want horses to avoid all triggers, you would need to keep them locked up! All ridden horses display this behaviour from time to time and usually the rider is able to offer reassurance and the horse continues happily with whatever it is doing.

These horses get the best care of any horses and when they are not being used they spend lots of time at rest each year. Some horses are not suited to this type of life and are sold off, only those that enjoy the work are kept. If you spend enough time around horses, you will realise how much they love working - just like working dogs that love having something to do.

Obviously these troops have their own employed farriers so the cost to shoe these horses is a fraction of the retail price. Also no horse gets new shoes every few weeks unless they are very poorly shod and keep loosing them! The old shoes are re-used unless they are worn. There shoes are taken off when they are given their long holidays.

https://www.yourhorse.co.uk/news/household-cavalry-datr-holiday/

These horses may be very well looked after with grooms who love them to bits? If we stopped using horses for ceremonial occasions (and horse racing, show jumping etc etc) there would be fewer horses in the UK. Likewise if all people stopped eating meat there'd be way fewer cows, sheep and pigs, if any. Milking sheep and cows only? There would be many euthenased/slaughtered if demand fell sharply. I don't eat meat myself but I see the dilemma.

@DepartureLounge I think in the horse world also there are those that passionately defend horse racing and those that don't
I worked for Ian balding when I was a teen and learnt to work ride a racehorse & what the racing job was like.
Even now They are stabled mostly , they don't have a lot of turn out to graze and stretch their legs and it's said that can cause enough stress to upset their digestive health and in turn cause them to have stomach ulcers, of course there are so many that are worth thousands and thousands of pounds they don't want them mucking around and getting kicked or lame in their paddock... that tells you enough I guess .. from what I know to be fair the nice stables do feed well , have top quality hay and supplements etc ... Phillip Kirby is a great trainer to follow if you are on fb .. his wife shows all behind the scenes , in the stables etc , they have open days and seem to be nice people who care about their horses
The thing for me is too many also are being bred to race , they can't all make the grade can they , like greyhounds and then what happens to the surplus? ...
My boy was raced then sent to France , he then retired to harness racing and then was up for rehoming .. I think there are a lot who get treated good but probably a lot more that don't aswell :(

90% of racehorses have ulcers (which are always caused by either pain or stress, or both). That should answer your question.
Racehorses are kept in highly unnatural routines ie kept stabled constantly, lack of herd contact, low fibre diets etc.
Basically they are kept in a way that is the opposite to any husbandry routine you are taught to keep horses in.

Great post @Easterbunnywashere

@twistyizzy I think you answered that better than I did 😅

Some of the horses were so terrified they shit themselves in public.
Must have been very embarrassing for them.

Are you serious??

Tell me a you're a vegan without telling me you're a vegan!

@Riapia mine doesn't care whose watching 😅🤣🤣

I agree wholeheartedly.

Here she is (we had a but of a Magic Roundabout theme - Dylan, and Dougal as well....)

@LatteOneShotplease oh my she is stunning 😍 😍
I love your name theme 🙌🙌

I couldn’t agree more.
also have you seen how they treat their polo ponies - Prince Harry is particularly abusive to his. He rode a mare drizzle to death and injured others with spurs.

Humans that use their bodies in extreme ways (whether that's hard manual labour, elite athletes, ballet dancers...) have to deal with the toll that takes on their bodies. Some have bodies that hold up better, some have bodies that hold up worse under the strains.

It is the same with horses. Even if they are indeed treated "like princelings".

Unsafe training practices, trainers that see ££ before ethics, welfare etc. are also a problem in professional athletics.
Why would it be different when it concerns horses?
Especially when one considers the fact that horses cannot speak up for themselves, do not have a voice.

Animal aid (IIRC) keeps track of the horses that die on the race course. The amount is somewhat substantial and doesn't involve training accidents, euthanasia etc.

Ultimately: racing comes with a substantial risk to the horse. Whether that's the risk of death or the comulative effects of repeatedly pushing a body to the max.

this benefits people involved in the industry (££) and not the horses.

😍

I got her from the Sales for 100 guineas, and she came back in the boot of a hatchback (had not planned to buy that day) 🤗

We stopped with those names, no-one needs to called Ermentrude or Brian.

Thank you for the insights. More consensus there than I expected tbh. Healthy to completely overhaul my own position on things sometimes.

😂

I don’t give a shit about the blue tassels etc. The horses have no awareness of how they look or a concept of silliness. The only thing that matters is their welfare, there’s no point anthropomorphising them, simply because it’s not a factor in their wellbeing. And in terms of that, these are domesticated horses bred to do a job - so selectively bred over generations to be more biddable, more able to carry weight, more calm etc. Just as my spaniel, who is himself not a working gundog but comes from working stock, instinctively wants to carry things in his mouth. You can’t compare these horses to wild exmoor ponies or mustangs, any more than I can compare my dog to a wolf.

I can’t equate some head-tossing and skittishness to abuse, and I’ve ridden horses my whole life and care deeply for them. The average riding school pony - with beginners hauling on their mouths and kicking them - has a much worse life than the horses today do, even with more turnout.

So?
is you’re point that it’s ok to treat animals badly because a life of abuse is better than no life?

that seems flawed logic to me

If you think that comparing one of those horses to an w moor pony is the same as comparing two different species separated by 30,000 years of evolution/domestication, you need to revise your biological science.

the evidence for domestic horse welfare is clear - social contact, freedom to graze and access to forage are essential to horse welfare, regardless of if they’re a high performing dressage, racing or carriage horse or the local riding school pony. They need turnout, social contact and long fibre and will suffer if isolated, boxed and fed high concentrate feed.

But they have long fibre and social contact? I agree with you on turnout, but they are worked and have holidays. Is it 5 - no. But it’s 4, and I stand by the point that it’s better welfare than most riding school ponies and possibly a good number of privately owned horses. What’s the alternative? Just stop using horses altogether at ceremonial events and let them all die out?

Sorry OP you need to explain why and how the why these horses are being used is wrong. Also what your qualifications are to make such a judgement. Once I know this I can say whether you are, or are not BU.