NHS job question

[StressyMcStressFace]

I work in a band 2 admin role. Recently a band 3 position in my office was advertised and I applied for the job and was invited for interview. This.was for a role I knew a lot about had loads of relevant experience and quite frankly was perfect for me.

At the same time I was aware that another woman in my building who does a completely different admin role had also applied for the job and was also to be interviewed.

at the interview I felt I did really well. In fact probably one of the best interviews I have done particularly as I knew so much about the job. However about a month ago I found out I was unsuccessful. I was placed as first reserve and found out from my manager that there were only 2 points between me and the successful candidate. I was gutted obviously but accepted that that was the harsh reality.

None of us knew who been successful as background checks .had to be completed until yesterday when it was announced that the other woman from the building has got the job.

Some of us do wonder how she was successful as she has no reason to be so clued in to the role unless she was coached but that's another story.

She is due to start in couple of weeks and here is my aibu. Part of her role will be to take some of my work which I I know for a fact she has no experience in and has never used the computer programme. (And also I am completely on top of my work and do not need any of it to be taken from me but anyway). Managers don't know how it's done either and have never used the computer programme that's needed for it. Therefore I think I will most likely be asked to train new girl how to do her new job! The job I was rejected for!!

I'm still gutted that I didn't get the job and my judgement may be a bit clouded as a result so that's why I need a bit of clarification please

YABU you were not good enough to pass the interview and should suck it up and train the new girl
YANBU that is at best very very cheeky and at worst against policy for a lower band to train a higher band.

sorry its so long and hope it all makes sense thanks

Sorry, that's a really rubbish situation for you. My experience of working in the nhs is that when there are internal applicants managers decide who is getting the job before interview. I think it's completely wrong to expect you to train her, but also don't think there's anything you can do other than raise to your manager that you're uncomfortable with this.

Ex-NHS HR Director here. You couldn’t be more wrong.

OP, ask for interview feedback.

I’d be tempted to book a nice long holiday starting shortly after she begins. Be interesting to see who starts training her & how they get on.

That's exactly my thoughts! Its very relevant that the successful candidate is a best friends with one of the managers who interviewed us. More than a coincidence if you ask me but I don't want that to be the focus of the thread.

If I'm asked to train her I'll probably say I'll consult my union rep first but obviously can't do that now till Tuesday.

Thanks for your reply 🙂

Just back from one unfortunately!

As you found out there were two marks between you. She was the better candidate scoring at interview so gets the job. That's how interviews work. It's not based on what you know yourself about a person. Application gets you shortlisted then it's down to performance on the day.

I have had feedback and was told I did a very good interview. Can I ask of it's appropriate to be interviewed by our 3 managers (bands 4, 5 and 6) without an independent person present?

This is one of the reasons why I left the government job and moved to private industry. I couldn’t handle it- promotions were never base on education, merit and/or experience.
We should start a petition, there should be an enquiry, this is taxpayers’ money, not their personal companies to employ their mates

This happens all the time in NHS & I'm sure other workplaces as well

It sounds like you expect worklife to be fair & that's not real life

What are your options = throw your toys out the pram? Refuse to train her? Make her life a misery when all she's done is exact thing as you & applied for a promotion. !

... Or you could show you're a team player.

It sounds like you're already bitching & gossiping about her & how you think she's unqualified to other colleagues, she's already coming into a toxic workplace that you've created for her with poor you as the victim - bravo this is one of the things the NHS does best!

Imagine reading it from another job example ie a newer nurse to the ward (but experienced in her previous ward) gets promoted over her colleagues who have much more experience on the ward.

So the existing nurses bitch about their new colleague & make plans about how not to train her in essential skills for that ward & patients suffer as a result.

This is of course going to feel rubbish for you, but the circumstances haven’t been engineered to slight you. You applied for a similar role to your current one - unsurprisingly there is some crossover. If you don’t feel confident training someone, you need to raise that with your line manager, but only if you genuinely think you couldn’t show her how to use the software or if you don’t have a capacity to do that alongside your other responsibilities. If this is just you being bitter, then yeah you need to suck it up. Show you can remain professional, continue to do well in your current role and apply for the next one that comes up.

It’s very presumptuous and arrogant to assume the other candidate could only possibly have beat you by being coached. NHS interviews tend to follow a similar structure and they really aren’t difficult to prepare for if you take the time to go through the job spec and brush up your knowledge accordingly.

You obviously did well in the interview if you were only 2 points behind, but sadly sometimes there is just someone else that came across a tiny bit better. Whilst that’s disappointing it doesn’t mean foul play and it doesn’t mean the successful candidate deserves to be mistreated by you when she starts. Try not to let your bitterness show, how would you feel starting a new role where someone in the team clearly had a grudge against you for something out of your control?

Can I ask of it's appropriate to be interviewed by our 3 managers (bands 4, 5 and 6) without an independent person present?

I have never had an NHS interview with an independent person present. It has always been the relevant managers and/or other members of the team with the vacancy.

@StressyMcStressFace well that explains it then! Best friends with the recruiter is a great way to ensure you get the job.
For internal applicants they should have someone independent on the panel, either someone from another service or from HR. You'd be within your rights to raise that with them.

@OnceAgainWithFeeling maybe it doesn't happen in your trust but it does happen. Don't be naive to think just because it's the public sector policies and procedures are followed to the tee.

Where have you got that from? My team would never have done anything else if they had
to sit on every panel! They did for significantly senior roles.

Ahhh good old nhs toxic culture at play. Don't make her life hell.

Can I just make it clear my AIBU is not whether I should have got the job (or the circumstances) but whether I should be asked to train the person who was successful over me

I have never had any intention to make her life hell. I have never said this

NHS Director here with lots of nhs and interview experience.

Firstly I'm sorry you didn't get the job and its frustrating there was only 2 points difference. I disagree with previous poster and HR director saying fixed interviews dont take place, of course they do, I've witnessed them but they're not very often.

Yes a 3 person interview panel is common and its an odd number so the third person breaks the deadlock when the other 2 panelists don't agree.

You'll never know if your interview was fixed, but my gut feeling is that it wasn't. It does seem to have been based on points and on what was said at interview. All you can do is take it at face value and decide if its now time to move onto something else as many of us would. If they value you, they would acknowledge how you're feeling and offer you incentives such as development opportunities etc.

In terms of handing over to the new post holder, thats a reasonable request although not a nice task due to the circumstances. I wouldn't kick up a fuss about it, stay classy and professional. Such behaviour will get you noticed in a good way. However, the situation needs managing by your management team. Ask them what are the plans for handover - who is expected to it, when and how. Get them to make it clear what is expected of you. Explain its not an ideal situation and you want it clean cut and over as fast as possible so its not drawn out. This way you know whats expected of you and can brace yourself for it.

Im sure you will but, be bright and breezy with the successful candidate, the last thing you want is that they report back that you're coming across as resentful, it will just cause bad feeling.

If I were you I would take this as the cue to move onto your next job. I've lost count of how many people end up better off after feeling forced to look elsewhere x

I'd be upset and frankly insulted!

“Unless she was coached”
Someone in my family applied for a job which I regularly interview candidates for it was a different hospital but the same sort of questions will be asked everywhere so I discussed or you could say coached them. Frankly I thought they were not a strong candidate for it nothing personal they are a very capable individual but they just lacked experience (which they made very clear on their application and at the interview). They got the position and the feed back they got back from the interviewers is how well they answered the question and that despite their lack of experience they’d obviously done lots of “research” prior to the interview. Just to add that they are doing exceptionally well in the job and have already been promoted.
I felt slightly uncomfortable that I’d “coached” them but there’s loads of stuff on the internet about possible questions for this position and I have applied for various positions over the years and have been told by colleagues who already have the job/senior colleagues what questions are likely to come up and what will be expected. A more senior colleague said she thought it showed initiative to discuss the possible questions you’d be surprised how many clearly don’t. Secondly most interviewers in the NHS are pretty savvy and have very well developed bull shit monitors (I know I do) so are able to quickly those who are just parroting stuff and don’t actually understand it.

Thanks that's helpful

@OnceAgainWithFeeling from personal experience. But maybe you're right and that is just for senior roles (as in my experience) rather than the lower bands.

I just want to add that I don’t agree with your statement that at best its very very cheeky and at worst against policy for a lower band to train a higher one”.
Over the years I have been trained in a variety of areas by staff of a much lower band than I am I respect their knowledge and assistance. And in my new position where I am relatively junior I have trained my colleagues who are a higher bands in a couple of areas that they are not familiar with but which I have loads experience. Everybody brings so many different experiences to the NHS health care is such a huge area no one can know everything. Thankfully in the majority of cases gone are the days when X didn’t listen to or learn from Y because X is a higher grade/band. We are here for the patients and we owe it to them to ensure that we all pitch in and work as a team if that means teaching someone in a higher band to do something then so be it.

We had a similar interview situation recently, band 3 job with an internal applicant that we all wanted to get the job...she didn't! External applicant just pipped her in the points and we were told no way could we hire the internal candidate.
How many people did the interviews?

Ex-NHS HR Director here. You couldn’t be more wrong.

this comment proves just how out of touch NHS HR directors are, all of the internal interviews in our department are a fore gone conclusion before the interview happens.