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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

cleaner wants extra money

97 replies

scrubdaddy · 05/05/2023 15:36

I own an Airbnb.

I have a cleaner... we agreed on a set price per clean, which she makes out most of the time because the cleans are usually anywhere from 6 to 8 hours. The set fee means I pay her 10 hours per clean. She hasn't been the greatest at checking inventory and cleaning inside kitchen cabinets, making sure pots and pans are scrubbed clean and everything is put in it's place and I have to constantly remind her.

Anyway, she has been with me going on 2 years. We originally agreed on a set fee and that would include the oven and gas bbq grill. She recently, about a year ago, had a baby so she dropped all her other clients and she has only cleaned for me... We also got a second cleaner to fill in.

Her husband is a handyman and works all the time, but doesn't offer her money to manage groceries and personal shopping so I understand she feels uncomfortable asking him. It's just not been her way. She has always worked hard and always had her own money. This last clean only took her 6.5 hours, but at some point while she was cleaning the oven, texted me a picture and said she needed to charge me £40.00 extra because the oven required so much scrubbing. I didn't respond with anything other than wow!

I have a hard time with people trying to get more dollars out of me for frivolous things when I am already paying them more than I should. I don't want to make her feel bad, or create an uncomfortable situation between us. I'm not the best diplomat because I tend to be frank and honest. I'm looking for help in the best way to communicate to her that I don't feel she should be charging me £40 extra dollars when I'm already paying her 10 hours for a 6.5 hour clean. Please any suggestions???

I can just pay her the extra £40.00, but I don't want her to look at me as a cash cow whenever she needs money and start charging me for things I'm already paying her for. I don't want to start resenting her.

AIBU to say no to her?

OP posts:
Inthesamesinkingboat · 05/05/2023 16:03

On that basis. I’d probably offer a payrise to £16 an hour and re-contract to 8 hours a clean but pay overtime if she goes over. So no separate pay for an oven, but if that moved the clean time to 10hours then I’d pay an extra £32.

AnObserverInThisDarkWorld · 05/05/2023 16:06

How did you arrive at £13 ph?
Is it that she set a price and then you looked at minimum wage (I believe London has a high MW than the rest of the country) and decide that was how many hours it was for or did you set the price per hour and then she billed you for 10 hours each time? If its the later then you should have addressed it earlier, saying something now will look like you've held it in to throw in her face when there's a problem. A bit like the things you says she's not good at.
Does she supply her own cleaning products?

PennineWay · 05/05/2023 16:08

Don't you have some kind of contract with her that specifies how much you pay? If not, I think you need one.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 05/05/2023 16:09

£13 an hour is not enough for anywhere for this type of cleaning. You aren't employing her, she is self employed, so either you know that she is not paying tax and NI , which isnr great, or that she is in which case she is getting much less than £13 take home.

You need to pay her more like £20 an hour and be form on the length of time/which jobs need doing.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 05/05/2023 16:10

Also, oven cleaning is horrible and not often on the list 'happy to do' for cleaners, so think yourself lucky.

Original poster
scrubdaddy · 05/05/2023 16:11

AnObserverInThisDarkWorld · 05/05/2023 16:06

How did you arrive at £13 ph?
Is it that she set a price and then you looked at minimum wage (I believe London has a high MW than the rest of the country) and decide that was how many hours it was for or did you set the price per hour and then she billed you for 10 hours each time? If its the later then you should have addressed it earlier, saying something now will look like you've held it in to throw in her face when there's a problem. A bit like the things you says she's not good at.
Does she supply her own cleaning products?

I looked at how much some companies were paying and then we both agreed on that hourly wage.

Depending on the guests, cleaning time varies so I thought just paying 10 hours a day would be easier and incorporates everything.

OP posts:
Original poster
scrubdaddy · 05/05/2023 16:12

PennineWay · 05/05/2023 16:08

Don't you have some kind of contract with her that specifies how much you pay? If not, I think you need one.

I do. I think I will have a chat with her to change those terms, maybe stick to an hourly wage rather than the 10 hours, and increase the hourly wage.

OP posts:
Iminthemoneylife · 05/05/2023 16:13

scrubdaddy · 05/05/2023 15:46

13.07 an hour

Show quote history

Are you paying NI and pension?

Thinkonmadam · 05/05/2023 16:14

Putyourdamnshoeson · 05/05/2023 16:09

£13 an hour is not enough for anywhere for this type of cleaning. You aren't employing her, she is self employed, so either you know that she is not paying tax and NI , which isnr great, or that she is in which case she is getting much less than £13 take home.

You need to pay her more like £20 an hour and be form on the length of time/which jobs need doing.

…and following on from this, the fact that you are her only client could be problematic as she could (for tax purposes) be classed as an employee. The law in this area is really loose as HMRC allows some leeway for a self employed person to have periods of only working for one employer, such as while they’re starting up and when they’ve lost contracts but I think it’s something you should check with your accountant.

KTheGrey · 05/05/2023 16:14

So for an eight hour clean she makes around £16.38 per hour and for a 6.5 hour clean she gets around £20.11. These seem reasonable rates to me.

I would not wish to be held to ransom by somebody deciding mid-clean that they need more money.

It seems to me that she agreed to clean up to a certain number of hours (10) and that if it didn't take longer than ten hours you don't have to pay her extra.

For a specific oven cleaning service, Google reckons £40-50 and 2 hours plus (depends how dirty it is.) Is it very dirty because it's not been cleaned for 2 years? Because then asking for an extra £40 is definitely cheeky.

Anyway, in answer to your question, I would go over your understanding with her, clarify that she may wish to negotiate a review of either pay or terms and conditions or both, but you pay her for time spent, not the difficulty of the clean. If it is more difficult to clean, it just takes longer, until her ten hours is up.

Putyourdamnshoeson · 05/05/2023 16:14

scrubdaddy · 05/05/2023 16:11

I looked at how much some companies were paying and then we both agreed on that hourly wage.

Depending on the guests, cleaning time varies so I thought just paying 10 hours a day would be easier and incorporates everything.

Show quote history

Those companies employ staff. So the staff are entitled to statutory sick pay, once they qualify, make pension contributions, pay NI so have enough years contributions to claim pension

familyof4boys · 05/05/2023 16:14

Just for context, we pay our cleaner £20 an hour and anything mucky like ovens etc I’d expect to pay in addition to the ‘standard’ cleaning. Outside of london, so I’d expect london to perhaps be slightly higher too.

Original poster
scrubdaddy · 05/05/2023 16:15

Iminthemoneylife · 05/05/2023 16:13

Are you paying NI and pension?

Show quote history

Yes, that's after the HMRC the income tax and NI contributions has been deducted.

OP posts:
Original poster
scrubdaddy · 05/05/2023 16:17

Putyourdamnshoeson · 05/05/2023 16:14

Those companies employ staff. So the staff are entitled to statutory sick pay, once they qualify, make pension contributions, pay NI so have enough years contributions to claim pension

Show quote history

Since I employed her directly, I looked at the tax rules guidances for the UK. I pay HMRC an additional income tax and NI

OP posts:
orangegato · 05/05/2023 16:19

£130 per day is enough as she won’t be paying a dime in tax? I end up with way less!

Eattheeel · 05/05/2023 16:20

Holiday let cleaners typically charge more per hour than domestic cleaners, so in London, I would expect £20 per hour. But that's beside the point, as you have muddied the water by you paying her the same regardless of her hours. As she sees it, you pay her £130 to do the clean. Most weeks it takes her about 6.5 hours. She's got used to leaving after 6.5 hours. Then when she gets a dirty oven that will take her 2 hours to clean, she feels hard done by that she has to work 2 extra hours for "free", so asks for more money.

Thinkonmadam · 05/05/2023 16:23

scrubdaddy · 05/05/2023 16:17

Since I employed her directly, I looked at the tax rules guidances for the UK. I pay HMRC an additional income tax and NI

Show quote history

Well that’s a drip feed 🙄

PennineWay · 05/05/2023 16:25

scrubdaddy · 05/05/2023 16:12

I do. I think I will have a chat with her to change those terms, maybe stick to an hourly wage rather than the 10 hours, and increase the hourly wage.

Show quote history

Good idea. If her contract is an hourly rate she can't just randomly charge you £40 for cleaning an oven. It's about how many hours she spent cleaning.

OutDamnedSpot · 05/05/2023 16:26

She sees this as a ‘price per job’ (£130 per clean) but you see it as a ‘price per hour’. She therefore thinks the oven is extra (a different job) but you think it is included (within the hours). It feels like this could be agreed with a quick chat. £130 per job, plus £40 for the oven every few months?

Wexone · 05/05/2023 16:27

Ok i have just paid 100e for a full deep clean of my range. Double oven, hob and extractor fan. It required three hours deep clean. Its alot of work. I get it done every year by a oven cleaning company. I pay my cleaner 20e an hour and she provides her own equipment. Sorry but think you need to increase rate of pay . I also don't expect my cleaner to clean pots and pans. My cleaner cleans the bathrooms, polishes, hoovers washes floors wipes skirting boards, cleans kitchen counters and hob etc. Some times will ask her to do windows and also help me with spare rooms if people coming ( they not used that often so dont need proper cleaning that often) if she does this i will give her extra as she comes a separate day to normal. If you want her to still come sit down with her, specify tasks to be done and also agree a rate, the cost of living has gone up considerably

KTheGrey · 05/05/2023 16:31

@Thinkonmadam
Is it really? It's an Airbnb, so obviously the OP is running a business. It's reasonable to assume she's keen to avoid trouble with HMRC and other regulators by running it within the rules, including having a proper contract with and paying NI /tax for staff.

Kingpin90 · 05/05/2023 16:35

On that wage the employee won’t pay tax or NI. The employer doesn’t pay the tax, the employee does! They do collect if due for HMRC if under PAYE.

Thinkonmadam · 05/05/2023 16:42

KTheGrey · 05/05/2023 16:31

@Thinkonmadam
Is it really? It's an Airbnb, so obviously the OP is running a business. It's reasonable to assume she's keen to avoid trouble with HMRC and other regulators by running it within the rules, including having a proper contract with and paying NI /tax for staff.

Oh you’re absolutely right that a responsible Air BnB owner would do all those things but this is Mumsnet, and worse this is AIBU on Mumsnet and so who the feck knows

I’m not the only person who assumed she was paying the cleaner as if she were self employed and certainly everyone who quoted figures for appropriate pay for cleaners were quoting as such.

Mortimercat · 05/05/2023 16:43

scrubdaddy · 05/05/2023 16:17

Since I employed her directly, I looked at the tax rules guidances for the UK. I pay HMRC an additional income tax and NI

Show quote history

For goodness sake. Did you not think it was relevant to mention that before letting posters comment for two pages. 🤷‍♀️

AxolotlOnions · 05/05/2023 16:45

I was getting £15/hour 10 years ago in the south-east for domestic cleans, you're seriously underpaying her.

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