Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

... to hate SATS?

64 replies

Jourdain11 · 04/05/2023 21:22

Year 6 SATS, specifically. DD1 has barely been at school since Easter, what with one thing and another. SATS are next week and she's been fretting all week, getting more and more anxious and I have been unable to convince her that she won't be doomed to a life of failure if she doesn't do brilliantly.

All for attainment and I understand why testing is necessary, but they just seem OTT and too stressy for both teachers and children.

OP posts:
ThingsthatgoBumpintheDay · 04/05/2023 22:26

I’m in the same boat with my little boy & he misses so much school (cystic fibrosis) & recently had another OP, so I know he’s behind. I’ve tried myself to get him caught up. He is saying if he does bad he’s failed. I had to sit him down tonight & explain it doesn’t matter at all as long as he’s done his best then that’s what’s important.

Feel so sorry for the kids. Missed how much with Covid as well, SATS can be really stressful for children & not everyone is good at exams. I hate that we’re all judged by an exam when there’s so many other ways to express your intelligence. Good luck to your child though I’m sure she will do well no matter what x

Squidlydoo · 04/05/2023 22:27

Iamnotthe1 · 04/05/2023 22:19

I've posted this before but just to correct some of the misinformation on this thread:

KS2 assessments and grades.
All children receive a scaled score in each of the following:
Reading (assessed by one exam),
Grammar, Punctuation and Spelling (assessed by two exams),
Maths (assessed by three exams), and
Writing (assessed based on the standard of independent writing produced within class and evidenced across 6 pieces).

The scaled score is between 80 and 120.
80 - 99 means a child is "Working Towards the expected standard for the end of KS2".
100 - 109 means a child is "Working at the expected standard for the end of KS2".
110+ means a child is "Working at Greater Depth withing the expected standard for the end of KS2".
This is how they are reported but it's the actual scaled score itself that matters. None of these are a fail: they are just lower scores. But some interpret a score of 99 or lower as failing. This isn't entirely correct nor overly helpful.

How scaled scores are used.
A child's scaled scores are used to identify their target grades for GCSE. These are not targets set by the school and cannot be changed by the school (although schools are welcome to set their own internal ones, they don't actually mean anything). These are not superseeded by CAT results or any other testing that secondaries might do.

Secondary schools are judged by how well they get children joining in Y7 to hit those targets in Y11. This is known as "Progress 8".

Why does that matter for the child?
There are a number of decisions made at a senior level in secondary schools that will be affected by the target grades of children. Parents are incredibly unlikely to be aware of any of these decisions nor how targets have influenced them. In fact, most class teachers will also be unaware as these are often decisions made by those in departmental leadership or SLT and, even then, only by people who are actively involved in the use or analysis of data.

What kind of decisions?
It varies from school to school but, personally, I have seen:

  1. Results/targets having an impact on which form group your child ends up in,

  2. Results/targets having an impact on which set your child ends up in, including some children being "locked" in a set that they shouldn't be in simply because they have to get a certain result and that's the lowest set still teaching the higher content. This also then means there are less spaces for children to move up from lower sets into sets teaching higher content.

  3. Results/targets dictating which band you are in with only certain bands being taught higher exam content and being allowed to sit certain courses like triple science.

  4. The targets for children being used to identify those who are on target by themselves and those who aren't, even if they are performing at the same level. This leads to resources being used to support/boast the children who are off-track rather than doing the same for children who could do better but are already achieving their target. This can even go as far as:

  5. The deployment of staff being informed by which children are "off-track" and those children having access to the stronger teachers.

I'm not saying that this is how it should be. In an ideal world, every child would progress at their own rate and reach their individual potential. However, this is how it's currently working in practice.

I agree with all of this. This is the reality of sats results in school especially the part about access to courses like triple science and being locked into higher or foundation groups.

any school that says they do their own testing in year 7 are saying this to reassure/placate parents

SausageinaBun · 04/05/2023 22:28

We're still working to undo the damage that a stressed teacher did last year through year 6 SATs. She wanged on and on about how much they mattered and how hard the children needed to work. My DD would have got greater depth at the start of the year, so there was no need to put any pressure on her. But the teacher harangued the whole class and DD took all of the messages on board, no matter how much we told her that the teacher was really talking to the other children. Now every test in year 7 is met with excessive revision and a genuine belief that they matter and it is beginning to impinge on our lives. So I'm not a fan of SATs or that teacher.

Original poster
Jourdain11 · 04/05/2023 22:55

SausageinaBun · 04/05/2023 22:28

We're still working to undo the damage that a stressed teacher did last year through year 6 SATs. She wanged on and on about how much they mattered and how hard the children needed to work. My DD would have got greater depth at the start of the year, so there was no need to put any pressure on her. But the teacher harangued the whole class and DD took all of the messages on board, no matter how much we told her that the teacher was really talking to the other children. Now every test in year 7 is met with excessive revision and a genuine belief that they matter and it is beginning to impinge on our lives. So I'm not a fan of SATs or that teacher.

Sorry to hear this, I hope she will come across some more relaxed teachers and be able to feel more chilled about tests and so on in time. There's also been a lot of hyper focus, pressure, pressure, pressure on DD's year 6 and the problem is that she takes it all so literally. She is struggling in Maths currently (because she's missed a few fairly key big chunks of teaching and seems to have caught up without quite properly grasping the concepts) and it's really hard to convince her that this isn't going to = failure when what they're hearing is kind of the opposite.

OP posts:
Original poster
Jourdain11 · 04/05/2023 22:57

ThingsthatgoBumpintheDay · 04/05/2023 22:26

I’m in the same boat with my little boy & he misses so much school (cystic fibrosis) & recently had another OP, so I know he’s behind. I’ve tried myself to get him caught up. He is saying if he does bad he’s failed. I had to sit him down tonight & explain it doesn’t matter at all as long as he’s done his best then that’s what’s important.

Feel so sorry for the kids. Missed how much with Covid as well, SATS can be really stressful for children & not everyone is good at exams. I hate that we’re all judged by an exam when there’s so many other ways to express your intelligence. Good luck to your child though I’m sure she will do well no matter what x

Hope your son's op went well, CF must be so tough. Good luck for next week! 💐

OP posts:
Peachyboop · 04/05/2023 22:59

Iamnotthe1 · 04/05/2023 22:19

I've posted this before but just to correct some of the misinformation on this thread:

KS2 assessments and grades.
All children receive a scaled score in each of the following:
Reading (assessed by one exam),
Grammar, Punctuation and Spelling (assessed by two exams),
Maths (assessed by three exams), and
Writing (assessed based on the standard of independent writing produced within class and evidenced across 6 pieces).

The scaled score is between 80 and 120.
80 - 99 means a child is "Working Towards the expected standard for the end of KS2".
100 - 109 means a child is "Working at the expected standard for the end of KS2".
110+ means a child is "Working at Greater Depth withing the expected standard for the end of KS2".
This is how they are reported but it's the actual scaled score itself that matters. None of these are a fail: they are just lower scores. But some interpret a score of 99 or lower as failing. This isn't entirely correct nor overly helpful.

How scaled scores are used.
A child's scaled scores are used to identify their target grades for GCSE. These are not targets set by the school and cannot be changed by the school (although schools are welcome to set their own internal ones, they don't actually mean anything). These are not superseeded by CAT results or any other testing that secondaries might do.

Secondary schools are judged by how well they get children joining in Y7 to hit those targets in Y11. This is known as "Progress 8".

Why does that matter for the child?
There are a number of decisions made at a senior level in secondary schools that will be affected by the target grades of children. Parents are incredibly unlikely to be aware of any of these decisions nor how targets have influenced them. In fact, most class teachers will also be unaware as these are often decisions made by those in departmental leadership or SLT and, even then, only by people who are actively involved in the use or analysis of data.

What kind of decisions?
It varies from school to school but, personally, I have seen:

  1. Results/targets having an impact on which form group your child ends up in,

  2. Results/targets having an impact on which set your child ends up in, including some children being "locked" in a set that they shouldn't be in simply because they have to get a certain result and that's the lowest set still teaching the higher content. This also then means there are less spaces for children to move up from lower sets into sets teaching higher content.

  3. Results/targets dictating which band you are in with only certain bands being taught higher exam content and being allowed to sit certain courses like triple science.

  4. The targets for children being used to identify those who are on target by themselves and those who aren't, even if they are performing at the same level. This leads to resources being used to support/boast the children who are off-track rather than doing the same for children who could do better but are already achieving their target. This can even go as far as:

  5. The deployment of staff being informed by which children are "off-track" and those children having access to the stronger teachers.

I'm not saying that this is how it should be. In an ideal world, every child would progress at their own rate and reach their individual potential. However, this is how it's currently working in practice.

This is really interesting thank you.

Original poster
Jourdain11 · 04/05/2023 23:03

@Iamnotthe1 Yes, really interesting - and also a bit eeek

OP posts:
Iamnotthe1 · 04/05/2023 23:10

Jourdain11 · 04/05/2023 23:03

@Iamnotthe1 Yes, really interesting - and also a bit eeek

I can see how all that information could cause worry in parents but my approach is always that you can prepare for and act on the things you know.

For your child, the important thing to break is the idea that <100 is a fail. It isn't: it's just a lower score. Some will be higher, some will be lower. If she has done her best and hit her current potential then whatever score she gets is the right one and she's starting secondary with a realistic picture of where she currently is. That's always helpful.

Original poster
Jourdain11 · 04/05/2023 23:33

The thing is, I strongly suspect she may get >100 in her maths papers. She's just missed so much, and she's basically keeping up but without a really thorough grasp of it, if that makes sense. But at the same time, there's no point in her continuing to struggle working at too high a level.

OP posts:
Original poster
Jourdain11 · 04/05/2023 23:33

<100, sorry!

OP posts:
Iamnotthe1 · 04/05/2023 23:42

But that's okay. If a score of less than 100 is the right score for where she is currently working then it's the right score to be transitioning with. It doesn't mean she has failed.

It's also worth remembering that the Y7 Maths curriculum (and in some schools some of the Y8 curriculum) is largely a repeat of topics they have already studied. This is highly effective for children like yours who have bigger gaps in their knowledge that need to be filled. It's not great for the higher attainers but some schools manage to address that well too.

wejammin · 04/05/2023 23:45

My yr6 son missed lessons this morning because he was awake until 1am last night with 'tummy ache'. He's autistic, hates change and is incredibly academic so is finding all the SATs revision papers very boring.
He gets tummy ache when he's anxious, and he was told he was 2 marks from greater depth in SPAG in the 'mocks' so he needs to work harder (not said in those words but that's what it meant).
They asked him to do extra prep classes at lunchtimes but I refused to agree - he has sensory needs and needs his exercise.
If they put less pressure on he would achieve a lot more but as it is, he's an anxious exhausted kid and he doesn't believe me that SATs don't matter in the scheme of life.

Original poster
Jourdain11 · 04/05/2023 23:56

My daughter had missed so much school this term and last. She's T1 diabetic (diagnosed 18 months ago) and also has diabetic neuropathy which affects her stomach and her bladder. She currently has to use a catheter to pee and has to eat multiple tiny meals so that she doesn't vomit her food back up, so I think she's pretty amazing to be going to school and doing SATs at all.

But she knows that she's missed a lot of teaching and "practice tests" and she's a sensitive girl and a worrier. She's done amazingly well keeping up on the days that she's been at home, and she likes reading and SPAG and topic, so she'll want to work (even when she's really poorly) because she enjoys it. But she doesn't have a natural love of maths and she's struggling where she's missed big chunks of teaching.

She's done a grand total of 3 and a half days in school since Easter. She's been off this week (yesterday and today) because she was vomiting and her glucose levels were all over the place, but hopefully she'll be in tomorrow. I'm writing an email to school to ask if they can take it easy with her and maybe give her some time to catch up on things she's missed if there are practice tests. Otherwise I'm afraid she'll get into a huge panic!

OP posts:
Stokey · 05/05/2023 08:11

@Iamnotthe1 thanks for that really clear breakdown. Depressing how it can affect future prospects at school.

Our primary are quite relaxed about it - in fact a teacher in the secondary that Dd2 will be going to said our primary was the only one where the children's SATs results matched their abilities.

But the secondary has said they do an extra language for the top two literacy sets instead of extra literacy so have been telling Dd2, she needs to do well to get into that. She reads all the time and would definitely not need extra literacy support. I guess schools need to judge somehow but it feels frustrating that future subjects depend on one exam in Y6.

Original poster
Jourdain11 · 05/05/2023 16:49

Yes, exactly, I think it's a bit of a pressure. Oh well, it will all be over this time next week!

OP posts:
Original poster
Jourdain11 · 07/05/2023 15:52

From curiosity, what happens if a child misses the tests? DD is sick again and I'm not sure if she will be well for school on Tuesday. Because of her gastro issues she's vomiting almost every time she eats, which isn't really compatible with good diabetes management or school attendance...

OP posts:
Iamnotthe1 · 07/05/2023 15:57

Jourdain11 · 07/05/2023 15:52

From curiosity, what happens if a child misses the tests? DD is sick again and I'm not sure if she will be well for school on Tuesday. Because of her gastro issues she's vomiting almost every time she eats, which isn't really compatible with good diabetes management or school attendance...

A child who is ill should stay off school. They need to be isolated from contact with others of their age who have sat the tests and then, once well, they return and sit the tests (if it's up to a week after the exam date)

Typically, the child will come into school at a different time and leave at the different time so they don't come into contact with others who have sat the tests. Once they are caught up, they rejoin the class.

If a child hasn't been isolated from contact, they will be unable to sit the test and will not get a result for that subject.

Original poster
Jourdain11 · 07/05/2023 16:10

Thanks! Oh dear - sounds complicated.

OP posts:
Iamnotthe1 · 07/05/2023 16:15

It's easier than it sounds, don't worry. Phone the school Tuesday morning and they'll put a plan in place.

The only thing you have to do, really, is take her phone off her (or any other device she can talk to other Y6 children on). She's ill so she won't be going out or seeing any of them in person.

somewhereovertherain · 07/05/2023 16:17

An utterly pointless set of exams that put pressure on kids for no reason and
all the secondary schools round here ignore them

there’s a reason virtually no countries in the world test this way.

and they’re far more about the school and not the child.

I8toys · 07/05/2023 16:19

My experience of SATs with DS1. August birth, always behind his peers at primary despite putting every effort in and an IEP in place. Not great results at SATs. At secondary they were always used as a marker to judge his achievements. We were told this was the only exam result available and were constantly referred to at parents evenings when challenging his projected grades. We had to convince one teacher that yes he really was working to A grade standard through effort and determination. They could not believe his progress. It was struggle but he did fabulously in his GCSE's, got all A's at A Level and is now at University.

somewhereovertherain · 07/05/2023 16:19

Jourdain11 · 07/05/2023 15:52

From curiosity, what happens if a child misses the tests? DD is sick again and I'm not sure if she will be well for school on Tuesday. Because of her gastro issues she's vomiting almost every time she eats, which isn't really compatible with good diabetes management or school attendance...

Nothing. The secondary school will assess them anyway.

pointless exams. We took our daughter out of them as school putting too much pressure on them.

Iamnotthe1 · 07/05/2023 16:20

somewhereovertherain · 07/05/2023 16:17

An utterly pointless set of exams that put pressure on kids for no reason and
all the secondary schools round here ignore them

there’s a reason virtually no countries in the world test this way.

and they’re far more about the school and not the child.

This is a common misconception. If you go through my post on the first page, you'd see how SATs are now used and the impact they have on the child which both lasts longer and is generally more impactful than for the school.

Lemonademoney · 07/05/2023 16:27

My son went through his SATs last year. It felt like a huge lead up to them but in the end they were over before we knew it and his school were fantastic at planning something fun for the children every day of SATs week.

The data from the results is used in secondary to predict GCSE grades and to help with streaming but there’s nothing to say your child wouldn’t be able to over or underperform to these targets, children change hugely during these years so please don’t think that a poor grade at this stage will spoil their chances later on. In year 7 my son has already seen friends move both up and down sets in core subjects as children find their feet at KS3 and I imagine this will continue to happen over the next few years.

Original poster
Jourdain11 · 07/05/2023 16:28

somewhereovertherain · 07/05/2023 16:19

Nothing. The secondary school will assess them anyway.

pointless exams. We took our daughter out of them as school putting too much pressure on them.

Show quote history

Despite the fact they're causing her stress, she'll want to do them if she can.

She doesn't have a phone yet, but I'll keep her off the laptop if she can't go in. DD2 is in Yesr 5 and will no doubt see and speak to Y6s, but I hope the risk of something being passed on by a third party is, and would be seen as, small.

OP posts: