UC think my tenancy agreement is fraudulent/contrived. Advice please

[Tenancyproblems]

I have just moved in to a privately rented property. I do not know the landlord personally and had never spoken to them before in my life until I applied to the advert on the open rent website.

I receive (atleast I did) the housing element of universal credit to help me to pay my rent.

When I moved in I uploaded the tenancy agreement on my UC portal as advised. They came back to me and said I need to provide evidence of my address and housing costs.

I was confused as the rent etc is all detailed in the tenancy however the landlord promptly wrote me a signed letter addressed to me at the new place FAO universal credit with the required details to support my claim.

Somebody called me the next day to clarify a few points (making sure I don't know the landlord personally, asking who else lives with me etc)

I answered honestly and UC said they'd get back to me shortly with a decision on my housing costs. That decision came back and the verdict was they would not be paying my housing costs. A generic letter was put up on my UC portal saying I hadn't provided enough evidence to satisfy them that I lived where I said I live and haven't shown evidence of housing costs(??)

Confused, I called them pretty upset and said I don't know what's going on here but I've done everything asked of me. The UC representative was sympathetic and said she would escalate it to a manager who would look at the claim.

Days later I check my UC portal and the decision has come back exactly the same. I'm entitled to my personal entitlement but no housing costs.

I contact them again, and again, and eventually they make an appointment for me to take my documents (IE tenancy etc) to be verified at my local job centre - that appointment was today.

I arrive there at 1pm with my tenancy agreement and some new documents I've been able to collect (a council headed letter regarding my children's school meals, more paperwork from the energy company) and before I've even sat down the advisor tells me that it's already gone above his head and the decision maker has rejected the housing element of my claim.

I'm completely baffled by this point and ask him what the problem is. He said there was several things "the decision makers" weren't happy with, a spelling mistake of the landlords name was one thing he mentioned but he offered no further context. He went on to say that during lockdown they saw a huge influx of fraudulent / contrived claims and now they leave no stone left unturned. He asked whether I could provide anything else. I said well no I've only been here just over a week I don't have anything else.

I'm then reminded of the tenancy deposit protection scheme and he asked whether I could provide the certificate for that. I was able to and said of course. He added a "to do" task for me on my journal which was exactly the same "to do" as I've done three times now (uploading the same documents) and said I could ask for a mandatory reconsideration and I'm now at the mercy of the same decision maker again I think.

If they reject it again I won't be able to remain here as I can't afford to.

I don't know what's going on here. I don't know the landlord personally. I'm not trying to defraud anybody of anything. I'm a lone parent who has never had any issues with the housing element of UC and now I may be at risk of homelessness.

Landlord is equally as dumbfounded. We are both completely genuine.

What on earth am I going to do?

Uploaded documents are deleted as standard once they’ve been viewed and approved or not by a job coach. Means they’re not unnecessarily holding on to loads of private docs for GDPR purposes

Its not super helpful in cases where stuff needs to be reviewed again though.

Ah that makes sense. They should've definitely given me some feedback though right? Unless PP was correct about them purposefully withholding whatever it is they have against the claim

Previous tenant was here for 6 years with no problems so I'm told.

I wonder if the clue lies in the fact the other applicant was refused for UC?

Yes this stood out to me, along with the letter you found. Something is definitely pinging where the property is concerned. @Tenancyproblems

Perhaps the tenants have not been paying the council tax

They delete the docs (after printing them out) as a way to show they've been received. I'm not sure they're meant to keep them on the site.

There is definitely a council tax debt as the letter is a final demand.

I've got it all in my name now, logged in to my C.T account on the councils website and its showing the annual balance as £1,200 and pence. Surely I'm not expected to pay all of that in one lump sum? I've been on and off the phone to the council all day so far it's a nightmare getting to speak to a human and not a machine.

I'm in a different local authority now and the council system looks a bit different.

Would non payment of council tax on a property mean the DWP would automatically refuse to pay the housing costs of a new tenant at that address?

Heard back from the MP, she has given me the deets of another MP as the one I emailed initially can only represent a particular Burrough but I've sent it all off to the correct MP now.

Couple of things:

1. make a Subject Access Request for everything to do with your claim, including the decision-makers notes.
2. Contact your local MP and also for case work support escalating this issue.
3. Ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration (they try to get you to call, but it may be more useful to do so in writing using the form they have on GOV.UK. Make sure this is sent recorded delivery.
4. Get an appointment with Citizens Advice for pulling together your Mandatory Reconsideration paperwork.

Thank you!

The mandatory reconsideration has gone through. I submitting it on my UC journal. I had a reply saying they had until the 9th to respond then another reply shortly after saying it had been escalated and they will respond within 3 working days so I'll be looking at Tuesday onwards for a decision.

MP has been contacted 🤞

Subject access request is something I wasn't aware of, I'll do that too ASAP.

I've been trying to get through to CAB all day and it keeps cutting me off as you're only allowed to queue on the phone for 5 minutes which is pretty frustrating. I'll keep trying, failing that I'll go down there first thing tomorrow.

I've spammed the hell out of the UC journal with every little update, they're going to be sick of seeing my name 😬

Ask for a Statement of Reasons for the decision.

RE council tax, you should be able to pay monthly, it's different in every council area, but when they send you your bill there will be a 'ways to pay' breakdown on it, which should include the option of direct debit/standing order. I have never lived in a council tax area which required the payment all in one go for the year. So just sit tight and wait for the bill on that one.

No way should you have to pay a year's council tax in advance!

In my area you have the choice to pay the year's fee either as 12 equal payments (so 1 each month). Or as 10 payments (paid monthly, then 2 months of the year where you don't pay anything).

You need to make a Council Tax Reduction claim directly with your local authority, they can liaise directly with the DWP to ascertain your entitlement if you give them permission.
Proofs uploaded onto a UC claim are automatically detected once viewed, they are not printed out. The DWP likes to maintain this is because of GDPR issues-it isn't, it's because their system doesn't have adequate storage capacity.
Fundamentally, Housing Benefit was and is far too complicated a benefit to wrap up into UC. Case managers don't have a clue about it, and decision makers are making the rules up as they go along.
It seems as if your tenancy may not be legitimate, in which case your landlady won't be able to serve an eviction order. You will not under any circumstances get a DHP to pay the full rent if UC refuse, you rightly have applied for a temporary top up of your Local Housing Allowance.
Your MP and possibly Citizens Advice are your best options as previously advised

I've applied for my council tax reduction and have to wait up to 10 days for a response from them for that 🤞

Any idea why my tenancy wouldn't be legitimate? Could it be that I'm not legally entitled to live here or something else?

If the mandatory reconsideration draws the same conclusion as the previous decision maker can I keep appealing?

My friends attempt to claim PIP springs to mind. They refused it. She appealed. They refused that. Eventually it went to tribunal but that was the complete end of the road then, they wouldn't keep looking at it.

I have an awful feeling that I'll be told they're not paying it end of and to just accept it.

Oh, OP... Deep breath! I understand you are stressed but it's actually a little frustrating reading your posts. The UC staff keep coming back to you with "you have not provided sufficient evidence of where you live and how much you pay in rent" and you seem to be more focused on contacting your MP/Citizens Advice or making a Subject Access Request, etc than simply handing over the required information.

"What information?" I hear you cry. As others have mentioned, UC probably won't tell you why your claim was rejected due to suspicion of fraud (they don't want to help potential fraudsters cover their tracks).

With these sort of things, always start at the basics. Here's why I think your claim was rejected:

• You hadn't informed the council about your new address; in other words, you were trying to claim housing benefit for a property you were not registered as living at.
• Your landlord's name was still on the council tax bill meaning she was registered as living at the property you are trying to claim for. Additionally, apparently this council tax bill in your landlord's name is in arrears.
• There was a misspelling of your landlord's name on the tenancy agreement.
• You provided the wrong home address for your landlord which didn't match the address provided by her. The UC staff now have your landlord at three different addresses (including the one you are trying to claim for).
• You hadn't provided any bank statements as proof of rent payment.
• You hadn't (as far as I can tell) provided any utility bills as proof of residence.
• You have provided a copy of your tenancy agreement... which any Tom, Dick or Harry can print off and fill in.

I could be wrong but I suspect the above is why your claim has been rejected and possibly flagged up as fraudulent.

In short, here's a to do list:

• Inform the council you live there; have your landlord's name removed from the council tax bill; request a council tax bill in your name only (you should have done this the day you moved in). - Done! ✅
• Get a new tenancy agreement from your landlord with no spelling mistakes and all details correct (especially your landlord's address).
• Get two forms of proof of address, in particular a council tax bill and a utility bill.
• Get a bank statement showing rent payments to your landlord (this can also be a third proof of address).
• Probably not needed by this point but have copies of your ID to hand.
• Politely (or with a sigh of relief and a "Ta-da!") inform the UC people you believe you have the information they are requesting.

All of the above should be sufficient evidence for claiming UC. If not, the issue probably lies with your landlord or the property - in which case there's probably not much you can do. Regarding losing your tenancy if you can't pay the rent, your UC should be backdated to when you first made your claim so if your landlord is prepared to wait a bit longer than usual you should be okay.

Finally, good luck! I had a similar problem when my housemate moved out and I applied for housing benefit as the sole occupant. It took two months for them to sort it out (they weren't convinced I was living alone). Luckily my landlord was understanding and didn't mind waiting for the arrears. So, all the best! (And sorry for the long post.)

Thank you 🙂

Sorry, excuse my scattered brain. I have ADHD 🙈

Indeed I should have put my name on the council tax the day I moved in. That is now done and I've applied for the council tax reduction. I'm not sure when I'll be able to provide a bill though, I'll have to wait until they send one.

For proof of address so far I've uploaded 2 letters from the energy provider (gas and electric) and a letter on council headed paper regarding my children's school meals. I don't have anything else yet to give them.

The bank statement showing transactions to landlady is a good idea. I'll nip to my branch tomorrow morning and ask for a print out.

I won't be able to show them anything else unless they add another To Do list for me but I'll have it ready.

I called up this afternoon and asked for a statement of reasons to be sent to me. The advisor told me to put it on my journal as she couldn't see anything apart from what's on the journal. She said in her opinion it looks like they don't think the landlady is real, I just need to wait for the decision now.

If there is no change when you get your mandatory reconsideration response then you can appeal.

Appealing is the same as going to tribunal. The tribunal decision is final (unless you can show they erred on a point of law, which is very unusual).

You can ask for a statement of reasons now, via your journal, and this is worth doing because it should at least indicate what evidence they believe is missing.

x post - that's good, you've done everything you can for now.

They've responded to my request for the statement of reasons to tell me the request has been referred so that's good.

I'm absolutely bricking myself that the decision isn't going to change. Reading it all back in black and white about how they'll now have 3 different addresses for the landlady if the council tax bill is included, it does look really damn dodgy 😔

Is there a reason they don't make contact with the landlord personally if there is any doubt? I feel like the whole thing is on me and I feel so overwhelmed and scared that I'm going to lose my home then lose my kids as i don't have anywhere else to live 😔

Sorry, excuse my scattered brain. I have ADHD 🙈

Ha, your scattered brain is excused; don't worry about it. I imagine this must be very stressful for you.

Indeed I should have put my name on the council tax the day I moved in. That is now done and I've applied for the council tax reduction. I'm not sure when I'll be able to provide a bill though, I'll have to wait until they send one.

You mentioned in an earlier post that you can now access your council tax bill online - if it clearly shows your address alongside the other details then I don't see why you can't screenshot or print the page as proof of residence. They should accept it I would think (hopefully).

For proof of address so far I've uploaded 2 letters from the energy provider (gas and electric) and a letter on council headed paper regarding my children's school meals. I don't have anything else yet to give them.

I'm not sure if that would have been sufficient. They usually require two separate forms of evidence (at least). If you have one energy provider supplying both your gas and electricity then those two letters coming from the same company will be classed as one form of evidence. Also, I'm unsure if the letter about your children's school meals, even on council headed paper, is valid or not (I'm guessing it could be easily forged). UC usually require something a bit more official, such as bank statements, council tax bill or utility bills.

The bank statement showing transactions to landlady is a good idea. I'll nip to my branch tomorrow morning and ask for a print out.

I'm surprised they haven't asked for this already. Bank statements (proof of rent payment) was one of the first things requested of me when applying for housing benefit. It's actually quite odd that they are saying you lack sufficient evidence when they don't seem to have requested it in the first place.

I called up this afternoon and asked for a statement of reasons to be sent to me. The advisor told me to put it on my journal as she couldn't see anything apart from what's on the journal. She said in her opinion it looks like they don't think the landlady is real, I just need to wait for the decision now.

Yes, from what you have stated on this thread I agree with the advisor: that they are likely concerned about the landlord's legitimacy. And I can understand their suspicions...

However! You and the landlord are genuine and your claim contained arguably common mistakes (misspelling a landlord's name or getting an address wrong) so I don't think you have too much to worry about. Just keep bombarding them with evidence and let them do the box-ticking stuff until they are satisfied (and they will be, eventually). The confusion regarding your landlord's address can easily be explained by the fact she owns/runs multiple properties/businesses (this won't be the first time it's happened with a claim).

The UC will be backdated so hopefully your landlord will understand (you did say she is nice); just warn her that the UC staff might be in contact with her as part of their investigation. I'm sure you will be fine. 😀

Thank you so much, that's really encouraging and I needed some of that as it's all got on top of me this afternoon and I've had to leave the room a few times so the children don't see me crying. I've got it stuck in my mind that I'm going to lose the flat, and then them.

I agree its odd that they haven't asked me for bank statements as I could have easily provided them with no issue.

When somebody called me last week they asked how I'd paid the deposit and rent in advance and I said bank transfer and that I could provide that if they wanted. They never took me up on it. I wish I'd have just printed them off before I put in for the M.R.

Contact your MP as the DWP have a duty to look at complaints from an MP.
Really awful for you OP!