To think that there would be less anti private school

[Poopoolittlekitten]

sentiment or threads on MN if people using private school were a tiny bit more self aware and didn’t ask for sympathy for rising fees or possible rising fees if Labour take away their false ‘charity’ status?

send your kid private if you want, just don’t come moaning about the costs or claim than anyone can go private if they ‘prioritise’ their child’s education they way you do. Particularly at a time when state school teachers are striking over pay and conditions.
And many, many people are working their socks off just to keep a roof over their family’s head.

YANBU - stop whining and looking for sympathy about your fees!

YABU - my milkman sends his 4 kids private by ‘prioritising’ their education so it’s not just for whiny poshos….

So you disagree that a lot of people experience jealousy and that many others don't always act as they would theoretically state that people should?

It's like all the people that claim they'd continue to work 'to keep themselves honest' if they won the lottery. Or that they'd split it between all their mates.

Similar to how almost every woman states they'd never live off a man yet many do just that.

No, I don't disagree at all that some people are jealous of those who have more than they do. I just don't agree that that's the only reason - or even the primary reason - why people might argue against entrenched inequalities in our society.

A lot of people are selfish and are purely motivated by self interest, but others sew are motivated by their moral beliefs or their perceptions of right & wrong. It seems hard for those in the first group to believe that those in the second group are not merely posturing/virtue-signalling. I guess it makes no sense to them.

And of course, people might say that they would act in a certain way but don't when push comes to shove. I have always said that I don't know if I would continue to work if I won the lottery. I'm pretty certain that I would give a lot of it away, based on what I do with a lot of my income right now.

As for living off a man...well, I wouldn't and I don't but it isn't a conversation that I have with people that often, so not really sure what the majority would say.

I don’t doubt that many do hold true to their principles, but when you see people readily abandon said principles when their fortunes change, it does tend to make you question the actual motivations of those making claims about being morally opposed.

Having been to private school I have encountered ‘my parents were against it but…’ on more than one occasion.

I absolutely believe that people like me should be taxed more, and so do quite a lot of my friends who also happen to be quite affluent.

MrsBennet The good news is that you can pay more tax should you so wish. This is from the Guardian of which I am sure you are a reader:

Susan Reynolds (Letters, 28 September) says: “I want to pay more tax for the public services I enjoy.” She might be relieved to know that she may do so simply by sending a cheque to HMRC. I understand that you can even specify where you would like to see that money spent

. I have always said that I don't know if I would continue to work if I won the lottery. I'm pretty certain that I would give a lot of it away, based on what I do with a lot of my income right now.

Nifty stealth boast!

I'm well aware of this, thanks, but until we have a government that is actually interested in spending tax to address inequality rather than lining the pockets of their rich mates, I will continue to give my voluntary contributions to the charities that have been forced to step in and fulfil the responsibilities that I believe should rightly be fulfilled by the state.

In the meantime, I will keep voting for a government that actually wants to tackle inequality.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves - if you want to make an actual difference get off Mumsnet and go and volunteer your time locally in preschools and primary schools or care homes. They will always need your help and all you will need is a DBS. Getting poorer children off to a right start with 1:1 attention makes a huge difference. Actually looking some children in the eye and caring about them is what they need. Building a rapport and raising your expectations of them. Same applies to troubled teens and community projects. Build a rapport and create expectations. Most successful people from a poor or neglected background will tell you that what got them out is one person who cared.

I don't necessarily think it's inconsistent to be opposed to private schools while sending your children to them. You can want what's best for your child within the existing system while simultaneously wanting the system itself to be different.

Personally, I didn't think that private education would be worth it in my dd's case, so the issue didn't arise, but I don't judge others for making that choice. We all do what we feel is best for our children.

I absolutely don't have an issue with people choosing private education for their kids - I actually have a lot of friends with dc in private schools, and others who were privately educated themselves. I might privately think that a lot of them are wasting their money, but that's completely their decision and I understand their motives.

All I am saying is that I don't agree that private schools are for the public good, I don't think they should be charities and I think VAT should be applied to school fees.

I already volunteer as it happens. As a primary school governor, as a charity trustee and as a mentor for a local teenager. I am allowed some down time though!

Oh, I do understand why people are against them. I don’t share those views, but it’s each to their own. My point is that when you see people hold a position right up until the point they can’t afford not to, rightly or wrongly it does make you question the sincerity of others professing the same principles.

I don’t doubt that there are people who truly hold those beliefs and do or would stick to them no matter their circumstances, but there are also those that wear a mask of moral principle to conceal envy.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves - if that is all true, then surely you would be able to use spare cash you may have for better purposes than applying it to the state via extra tax? Surely, you would know how to use your money to help out directly and locally in a better way? Surely you can use your drive and money to create a charity of your own or get other people involved to help? Or do you actually believe the state is efficient? If you want to create direct impact giving to the state is never going to be an efficient way to do it.

While we are talking about voluntary contributions, I absolutely agree with you...I certainly don't think that the current government would use my money wisely, which is why I give my surplus cash to charities at the moment.

However, I do believe that the state has a duty to ensure that certain basic needs are met. They are failing in that duty at the moment, and so the voluntary sector has had to step in, but I don't think that's how it should be. I am very involved with a number of charities in different ways, and they each do truly amazing work, but there are certain things that they can't fix... they're just treating the symptoms and not the underlying cause. Government needs to tackle the structural inequalities in our society in order to make lasting change, and that will require resource from taxation. And yes, there can be inefficiencies in the public sector, but I don't necessarily think these are inevitable.

Also, quite apart from the fact that I think the state has a responsibility for ensuring that certain basic needs are met, I know that my contributions alone aren't going to fix a massive societal problem. I want everyone with wealth to contribute more, rather than just the ones who feel like it. I know that lots of people don't agree, and that's fine, but in a democracy, I will just have to hope that enough people will come round to my way of thinking in the end.

I do, however, think that the state should outsource some of the work to the voluntary sector, which can probably deliver more efficiently. But I still think that the state should be responsible for resourcing this.

And as for starting my own charity, there wouldn't be any point. There are already many excellent charities working very hard to make a difference in my local community, and they are all competing for the same very limited funding as it is. My efforts are better directed at supporting the existing ones.

So l, if tomorrow the government started handing out uncomfortable pads in a size that didn't fit, and then ran out in my area, you would be insisting that I pay VAT on my luxury tampax?

I didn't. Well we didn't get as far as that but he was advised to apply for a scholarship and we turned it down.

‘All I am saying is that I don't agree that private schools are for the public good, I don't think they should be charities and I think VAT should be applied to school fees.’

even a lot of Tories agree but they’re worried about losing what few votes they might have left

I’m assuming your only other alternative wasnt a failing Comprehensive in Special Measures

You're comparing education to tampons?

Sorry, I don't really get the comparison. But if someone started selling ridiculously expensive tampons with e.g. lots of unnecessary decoration, premium branding and fancy packaging, at a price which put it way beyond the reach of most ordinary people, then yes, I think it would be entirely reasonable to put VAT on that product.

If you're saying that the ordinary tampons that were available to everyone were somehow not fit for purpose, then my primary concern would be on reforming the standard ones for the masses who couldn't afford to pay, not for the rich having to contribute a bit extra in tax.

Not failing but not great.

I think all the people on here who chose private school because the state in their area is inadequate or dangerous know what I'm getting at. I'm sorry the point is so beyond your comprehension.

‘You're comparing education to tampons?’

Like I said - totally unaware…

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves
the purpose of scholarships is not to improve the lot of poorer children. Frequently scholarships have very little monetary value.
You cannot lump scholarships and bursaries together.
Christ’s Hospital has over 100 pupils on full 100.% bursaries, and they get free uniform
too.

In case you were unaware, period poverty is a huge issue around the world affecting girls' education. However, you don't need tampons - there are cheaper options. Does that mean it should be taxes like alcohol?

Dobby, and what about the people who choose private, even if there is adequate state provision in their area